Comments on: Oh yeah, and THIS happened…

By: valuistics

valuistics — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:17:39 +0000

Now I have, and damned if Daily Show doesn’t hit it on the nose with:

“Barack Obama should in no way be upset about the cartoon that depicts him as a Muslim extremist, because you know who gets upset about cartoons? Muslim extremists.”

My final thought: it’s just a cartoon and what could have been an opportunity for the Obama campaign turned into a lot of pointless media hype.

Now I’m really out.

By: markcreegan

markcreegan — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:08:18 +0000

i was referring to the “terrorist fist-jab” thing. Certainly most folks see that as ridiculous, but i still cant get over that an attempt was made to warp it. Have you seen the Daily SHow’s take on it?

By: valuistics

valuistics — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:25:59 +0000

What are people saying about the fist bump, anyway? How has it been warped in the media? I think its cool. Now my wife and I do it.

By: markcreegan

markcreegan — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 03:52:27 +0000

Well, I just want to add this tidbit. I was thinking about this today as I walked my dogs. I remember seeing that fist bump when it first happened and thought that was very cool. It just seemed so damn REAL when so much of politics is fake. I may be reaching on this. Hell, it may have been a choreographed thing anyway, but I am not THAT cynical to really believe that.

Anyway, on my walk I reflected on how sad it is that this simple, improvised gesture has been warped into something else. Is this why politicians are so stiff? If you let down your guard and demonstrate some genuine human interaction and playfulness, it can be used against you? W…T…F?

By: Tony

Tony — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 02:23:29 +0000

Only when breaking news hits or in an ironic headline. OUT!

By: valuistics

valuistics — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:11:14 +0000

Okay, guess not. I’m out.

By: kurt polkey

kurt polkey — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:09:59 +0000

good thoughts by everyone. i think we should debate the merits of non-capitalization of letters on blogs.

By: morrison

morrison — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:57:45 +0000

the bombs america drops in iraq and afghanistan are being felt around the world the economic noose is tightening and after seven years of fighting a war that can’t be won, we as a country have lost favor with nations that felt sorry for us after 9/11, what about the 70,000 chinese citizens that died 2 months ago, where is the endless news reporting there. we have anniversaries to remind us as a nation that we are alive. while other cultures in the world lay dying we ignore the truth for commerce and guilt… pump on fuck your suv dry up the resources leave nothing behind. rats in a maze go for the cheese. go for the cheese

By: valuistics

valuistics — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:50:00 +0000

No argument there. But I think we may have drifted off of the topic of Obama and the illustration. Have we beaten it to death or does anyone have anything else to say abotu the New Yorker cover or the news surrounding it?

By: kurt polkey

kurt polkey — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:39:15 +0000

I think it’s great the the country came together to fight the “people’s war”, but I think it’s good to know all the facts. Most people believe Japan’s attack was out of the blue. People think the war couldn’t have been avoided. People think the war was fought for righteous reasons. Here’s another take:

It was not Hitler’s attack on the Jews that brought the United States into WWII, any more than the enslavement of 4 million blacks brought Civil War in 1861. Italy’s attack on Ethiopia, Hitler’s invasion of Austria, his takeover of Czechoslovakia, his attack on Poland–none of those events caused the U.S. to enter the war, although Roosevelt did begin to send aid to England. What brought us fully into the war was the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor. Surely it was not the humane concern for Japan’s bombing of civilians or Japan’s attack on China in 1937, her bombing of civilians at Nanking, had not brought the U.S. to war. It was the
Japanese attack on a link in the American Pacific Empire that did it.
So long as Japan shared the exploitation of China, the United States did not object. It had exchanged notes with Japan in 1917 saying “the Government of the United States recognizes that Japan has special interest in China.” It was when Japan threatened potential U.S. markets by its attempted takeover of China, but especially as it moved toward the tin, rubber, and oil of Southeast Asia, that the United States became alarmed and took those measures which led to the Japanese attack: a total embargo on scrap iron, a total embargo on oil in the summer of 1941.
Japan’s strike against us wasn’t sudden or unexpected. It was the last move in a long series of antagonistic acts from the United States.

Howard Zinn, A people’s History of the United States.

By: Tony

Tony — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:19:16 +0000

http://www.ep.tc/intro-archive027.html

Amen. You and I are America too Morrison. I support our troops and our flag. It reminds me of my favorite t shirt. Andrew Jackson high school. “Loyalty before victory” on the front. And on the back it has a tiger bustin through a brick wall with “main street style” graffiti on it. Elitist out!

By: valuistics

valuistics — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:49:32 +0000

Tony: I hope you’re right and I hope more folks get it than I think will. It makes me smile too, because it is so maniacal and over the top.
Byron: Yeah you’re right about WWII. You won’t forget I’m sure that as a nation we were very reluctantly dragged into the fight, at first. Before Pearl Harbor when FDR wanted to help Britain there was a huge anti-war movement in the USA. I think the main difference between that conflict and those since has to do with how that war changed our status from underdog to top dog. To win the war we were able to come together under a uniting force because it was plain as day what had to be done, and who our enemies were. The objectives were clear, we knew what had to be done. That was why the whole country actually fought WWII from housemoms to kids to average citizens. We were a people capable of sacrifice because the end goal demanded it. Consider that between 1941 and 1945 there were no domestic cars manufactured in the US at all. People rationed everything and conserved everything for the singular purpose of fighting the war. In today’s fight I’m not sure we’re at all capable of doing that. We have a fundamentally different brain. I think we could probably come together again under some unifying force, but it would have to be clear what we were doing and what was at stake. The what and the why of the Iraq war is still in question and the end goal is sketchy and depends on who you talk to. As a nation we’ve been lied to and manipulated into this questionable fight by our “leaders” who have evoked the nostalgic language and imagery of WWII in every war since. The flag is a key symbol, but it’s a symbol nonetheless. And I don’t think it stands for the same thing (in a lot of our minds) as it did to those guys on Iwo Jima hill.

By: morrison

morrison — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:29:24 +0000

america is a racist blood thirsty country built with fear and hatred, this image is really the power of art and how it influences the masses, the balance is trying to shift and power is holding on.

By: contributor

contributor — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:16:35 +0000

I won’t argue with you Kurt. Maybe I’ve been programmed. I’m sure I have.

But I still want to believe in some sort of ideal that is America. I cringe when I see the flag being burnt by other countries.

The America I think of is the selfless one that helped win World War II. That’s the one I believe in. I think almost all the wars after that were mucked up for one reason or another. But we got WWII right. I’m hoping new leadership will correct some of these past mistakes but I’m sure it will take decades.

By: Tony

Tony — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:08:59 +0000

Dailyshow.com July 15th

By: Tony

Tony — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 01:36:14 +0000

I guess I will be really bummed if I underestimate our peers and someone thinks this cartoon is anything beyond an illustration of our idiotness. But its sooo hard to take it seriously that even faux populist news has to explain it. Which might what bring protests? Boycotts of the new Yorker? Haha. Visit Denmark Kurt but live with us because its a duckin resort here. God bless obama. God bless stupid people. Yay new Yorker. I am sooo glad that they didn’t do a cartoon allah or muhammed. That would be harder to support. Just enough billshut to make me smile. Viva la fist bump

By: Chris

Chris — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 01:03:07 +0000

According to both political camps, there is a lot at stake in this election. My view is that GW has driven a stake up Americas….
But, that being said, as the election draws closer, the down and
dirty will escalate. You think that some mud has already been slung?
Keep watching, we are going to see the Mother of All SlimeFests

By: kurt polkey

kurt polkey — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:34:32 +0000

Paul Mooney is the comedian on the NPR interview. He is best known for not using the “N” word anymore and for trying to convince other comedians not to use it either.
I think I can be convinced to agree both ways about this cover, I just think they should have had a picture of Allah in the background.

I have to disagree with you guys about the flag. I know I’m in the minority on this one, and my opinion might be different if I had served in the military, but I’m tired of people saying that many have died for our flag. Many have died because rich white people have sent young men and women to fight for what usually amounts to nothing. Those soldiers in Iraq are not fighting for our freedom, they’re fighting because they couldn’t get health insurance or a decent job, so they had to join the military. I think we ease our own guilty consciences by fooling ourselves into thinking that there is something righteous about this war and other wars that came before.
I’m also tired of all the people saying we live in the best country in the world. How do these people know? My sister is hosting a student from Denmark and her country sounds a lot better than ours. And I don’t want to hear “if you don’t like then move”, we all know that type of sentiment doesn’t make any sense. Forced patriotism bugs me. It bugs me that my kids have to pledge allegiance to a flag every morning. It bugs me that I have to stand and cross my heart before every sporting event. Sure I don’t have to, but you try not standing at the next football game and see what kind of looks you get.
Anyway about the cover; nothing surprises me anymore, plus it’s the New Yorker - they love Obama. Right?

By: valuistics

valuistics — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:18:28 +0000

Agreed and sorry Tony I mean no disrespect. I wish I could be more populist. And I realize how my concern could be read as a lack of faith in the American intellect (see previous posts keyword: monster). I must object though that believing this is too smart is engaging in an elitist activity. I think the cover sails above average folks’ heads needlessly and ends up looking like the ugly publicity grab I think it is.

By: Mac G.

Mac G. — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:33:41 +0000

Funny someone is highlighting faux populism. On the web, it seems, everyone acts like a populist. Weter they are or not is beside the point. This cover seems to be counter all that. I hope this isn’t about raisng a real boogyman around ‘Bam, I would expect more from th New Yorker. As for the flag thing, yeh It’s a symbol but it’s one that holds a lot of meaning for a lot of folks. The cover is obviously beng disrespectful, bt is being so disrespectful it has to be a joke. Still, you would thik they’d be more subtle or, in my opinion Smarter than that at the New Yorker.