I fought the law and the law won.
11 April 2009
14 CommentsI am still baffled by the idea that we spoke to some issues, and they were provacative to be sure, but we got a load of irrational emotional responses, and more than that we were threatened with the use of force because of words we wrote. This saddens me deeply. It seems if anything, artists ought to protect one another’s right to dissent.
Byron is what I would call a natural philosopher, he has instincts that allow him to speak plainly free from social expectations. I come to those skills as a result of study, and it has taken years of such study to be able to fully appreciate his passion, as I get a bit more courageous. For once, I too found his freedom frightening. In this project, the one I ended, Byron was not afraid to move forward. I was. When told I would suffer personal harm I backed down, conceded. I am saddened by this. Not because I think I was wrong necessarily, but because the threat of force was used in the first place. I am not sure I am ready to pay such a price to speak against what I see as an unsustainable set of artistic values, and I have to live with that. But I am glad that I was at least willing to take myself to the edge, that is my progress.
I cannot stop thinking about debt. I was talking to a friend the other day and I told him how I don’t ever apply to art shows where there is an entry fee. Hi eyes lit up and he said, ‘Yeah, those guys are parasites, exploiting the hopes of thousands of artists.’ And I thought, how different is the university system, in exchange for a few years of art discussion and freedom to work, the artist does not leave with a set of defined skills that have a value that can be turned into a legitimate artistic life. Rather, more often the young artist leaves school and walks right into a hole, an ever-deepening hole of debt. And that artist must immediately make the most compromised types of choices under threat of force. He/she can get a non-art job, losing valuable creative years in order to pay for the schooling they recieved, and often this will take them many more years than they spent in that school. Or the artist can return to school, a double or nothing game, getting a degree that places him/her in a position of intense competition with his/her peers for an ever-decreasing number of teaching positions, so that he/she can then do to others that which was done to them. In these equations, where is the art? How does this serve our society? How does this serve artists? I don’t know. How does this serve the nurturing of creative freedom, or the freedom to speak, or the freedom of dissent.
To me, it seems the artistic lifestyle has been co-opted by a system of credit. I was reading in Harper’s this morning about how usery, a form of unethical lending that has been outlawed for most of human history is rampant these days. For myself, when I got out of school I went to New York, like Byron. I did not want one more day in an institution, and when the first bills came for my schooling and I was beginning to see the ‘real world’ and the power dynamics that are shocking to young redneck who finds himself in New York City, i said “No fucking way!” I am not paying those, because if I do, my chances for making art are over. And I didn’t. If I have any courage it is in this realm, in the financial realm. Luckily, when I got married, I told my wife that had I remained single I would have fought this debt to the end of my days, but she paid them for me. But I know in my heart, that I was ready to never give one cent to those credit companies, and I didn’t for 8 years. I was harassed, my tax returns were taken from me, but I never willingly gave anything back. I would have if my schooling had given me some edge in my field, but it did not.
The only thing that has given me an edge in this world is my dedication to my own knowledge, and where that comes I could not tell you. I do not take pride in it, it is a gift. My point is this, I don’t see why it would not be better for a young person out of high school to get a part-time job, where they will learn something about the real world, and knowing a little bit about money now, a young person can easily work 20 hours a week, and live an artistic life, they could form a community with other young artists via the internet and other older artists willing to be there for intellectual support, then in those same four years, they could make a body of art and have a little savings to promote it. I question the validity of the university system, a pyramid system intimately connected with the credit industry, and backed up by government force. I got no problems with government, serious, I just think artists are not their top priority, and so as artists we ought to have some unity, and some community with one another, instead of trading it away to become competitors with one another. I remember when I was in high school before finances came into it, the art kids were a pack, and they stuck together. that is the ideal i am working to inspire.
I have made my compromises from cowardice and self-protectionism and I have made some courageous attempts toward dissent. What I am doing here is laying it out, and speaking to what i want, not because i think it is righteous, but because my desire is my right as a human being.
Akbar Lightning
So you never personally paid any of that money back for your art schooling? I didn’t know that.
There’s a book waiting on that subject alone. There’s your pot of gold.
You have some very good points here mate. The project pointed out some holes in the argument of obtaining an art education. To me the holes are there because no one attempted to answer the letter.
Now I firmly believe if one is to come out of art school with some skills to get a job to pay back their loans it’s fine, but studio art programs? What do they teach you but to think and to learn for yourself?
Although that was my background and I can say that without getting that thirst for learning and exploration in the studio art program I wouldn’t have taught myself web design and currently be in that field. After all, the only reason I built my first web site was to put my paintings online.
So there’s a counter argument there I believe, that teaching thinking skills and encouraging passion is what is being taught in studio art programs.
I do think professors should easily be able to answer questions on how the credit system and loan programs are feeding the system and what a student should be able to expect after graduation. It is hidden from most students how absolutely hard the life of an artist is and will be.
Your pointing out the two choices of an art graduate is quite profound I believe. Either A. sacrifice your personal creative freedom and get a day job that has nothing to do with art or B. go to grad school and get an MFA which will allow you to teach art and compete for those small number of jobs in that field.
I loved how you broke that down. Very nice description.
I don’t think there is a black or white answer to the loan programs and their involvement in arts education. I’m sorry. I do see your viewpoint but even though I’m still paying back my loans twelve years later, I would not have gotten any of the jobs I’ve gotten without my BFA. In my field a BFA actually means something. Especially in the New York design world, even a studio art BFA can be translated as credentials for getting one a job. Good example being that first job as an Art Installer.
Also, I remember doing freelance design work for creative staffing agencies and how a BFA was taken very seriously.
So I agree my degree was technically worthless after graduation but I disagree because the creative problem solving skills and passion I gained while getting that degree has repaid me ten fold.
That seems to be an easy way to answer the questions you asked in that letter as far as the credit system and the way it’s tied together? How come others are not at liberty to answer in such a manner and fear for the security of their jobs as they do?
That to me seems to be the follow up question from the Chicken Wire project. One maybe you and I will just have to answer for ourselves.
Oh and thank you for the natural philosopher compliment. Too kind Akbar. Too kind. I have cancer too which is a major game changer. Sorry I scared you too, but I did feel the project needed to go on even if it was just my ass on the line.
I never wanted to endanger anyone but just wanted truthful answers to some pretty easy questions, as I attempted to answer some of them above.
Amazing it was perceived the way it was.
I’m going to be honest with you all as I always am, the fact that we were threatened and stalked makes me truly fear for the future of humankind. When our very educational institutions can not answer questions about truth and integrity where are we headed?
I really want to believe in mankind’s innate goodness but I have serious doubts now. I really don’t want to give up on that.
“I am still baffled by the idea that we spoke to some issues, and they were provacative to be sure, but we got a load of irrational emotional responses, and more than that we were threatened with the use of force because of words we wrote. This saddens me deeply. It seems if anything, artists ought to protect one another’s right to dissent.”
Let me type it out slowly. “It seems if anything, artists ought to protect one another’s right to dissent”. Yes. And that is why, when you reacted to Tim and Mark’s dissent by contacting the institutions they work for to point out that dissent, you got a load of so-called “irrational emotional responses”.
“I did not want one more day in an institution, and when the first bills came for my schooling and I was beginning to see the ‘real world’ and the power dynamics that are shocking to young redneck who finds himself in New York City, i said “No fucking way!” I am not paying those, because if I do, my chances for making art are over. And I didn’t. If I have any courage it is in this realm, in the financial realm. Luckily, when I got married, I told my wife that had I remained single I would have fought this debt to the end of my days, but she paid them for me. But I know in my heart, that I was ready to never give one cent to those credit companies, and I didn’t for 8 years. I was harassed, my tax returns were taken from me, but I never willingly gave anything back. I would have if my schooling had given me some edge in my field, but it did not. The only thing that has given me an edge in this world is my dedication to my own knowledge, and where that comes I could not tell you.”
This is a breathtaking example of entitled sociopathy. So you think you are so special and your contributions to art are so important that you should be excused from having to shoulder the same responsibilities that other people do? You don’t sound brave, you sound lazy. I know an awful lot of artists who show nationally and internationally. With the exception of a handful of trust fund cases, these artists have spent years working jobs not directly related to their own work, yet still found the time and means to slowly build highly successful careers and produce terrific work. You were happy to take advantage of all of the classes and opportunities offered by the institution. If it was worthless, you should have dropped out. Allowed someone else your spot, someone who would have benefited from a BFA program in the ways that Byron points out that he benefited from his. Instead you are proud that you in essence stole those years from the program, stole a spot from another student, all while having no intention to ever pay for what you were provided with. That is not called having courage in the financial realm, that’s called not taking responsibility for your own choices, it’s called breaking promises. It’s also called being a deadbeat.
I agree that a B.F.A. is a required form for people to attain certain levels of work. But if it is required to have access to certain types of work, why should everyone pay a different set of prices for the same license? that is the nature of my question. wouldn’t it be good for young art students, that know they want to make art, to have a 3rd option, that is presented to them at that age? that is my point.
and frankly, i think you would have been a critical thinking with or without college. i think we overestimate the teaching and underestimate the innate human curiosity.
gotta go, dog needs poopoo.
akbar
thanks hooboy, another example of a compassionate, rational response.
btw, i did a lot of hard work that was not art-related, i just felt i did not want to enable a system of an overly exploitative credit industry.
peace and love be with you,
akbar
btw, this cutting and pasting habit of some of you commentators is completely redundant, most people assume you are responding to another comment or the post.
Man the term sociopath is used way too often on this blog. For a definition of it here ya go:
Sociopath: a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.
Now in relative land we could most likely call anyone a sociopath with that definition. But to me it’s blatant name calling and is not acceptable.
I’d really wish we could get away from the name calling on this site. I’ve filtered some of the most hateful comments off this site as of the past week. The first time I’ve ever had to actively engage in moderation on this level.
This one I will leave as is, as you do seem to be interested in pursuing the conversation even though calling someone a sociopath is unacceptable and if it’s done again you will be in the spam filter Mr. hooboy, just a heads up.
As I read Ken’s post and knew him while in school, he was not intending to not pay back his loans while in school. I don’t believe he ever set out intentionally to not pay them back for quite some time. I don’t believe it was until he was several years out of school and had deferred them for a several years that he committed to not paying them back.
I won’t speak for him though as Akbar has an art opening tonight at a nice little spot in Beacon, NY.
You call it sociopathy, and another can call it courageous for facing the credit system we are all so amazingly scared of.
I mean look at it Mr. Hooboy. The bank CEOs have robbed us blind and gotten multimillion dollar bonuses after wards. And yet an artist who can’t pay his loans is put to the ax and threatened by loan collectors for years.
The whole thing (The American Dream) has been a scam. I find it a noble act Akbar one I wish I had done now in retrospect. One I was not able to do because of the fear that is inflicted by our culture to those who do not pay their tainted obligations.
Now if you weren’t paying your home mortgage because of someone selling you a pipe dream and a bad mortgage would Mr. Hooboy be calling you a sociopath too? I wonder? Seems to be an identical correlation between Akbar’s choice and the choice of thousands of American’s and their mortgages.
And for my argument for an art education, if a degree is something one needs to succeed in our culture why is it not provided free by our government? Seems other countries have realized this as a truth and implemented free university level education. Sure the right wing media would have fun calling it socialist or even communist another thousand times (as they are with universal health care) but would it not keep the our country from growing a middle class of indentured servants to the credit industry?
“Now if you weren’t paying your home mortgage because of someone selling you a pipe dream and a bad mortgage would Mr. Hooboy be calling you a sociopath too? I wonder?”
No. I would not. I had 40,000 in loans to pay off. These educational loans are highly regulated and subsidized by the government. I found that I could make minimum payments based strictly on income. These are not loans with hidden costs, they are not at all the same thing as the sub-prime mortgages with variable rates and hidden costs. There was no subterfuge involved.
As a student I was in no way “tricked” into signing on. It was made very clear what my responsibilities would be when I signed the loans, complete with calculations for the amounts and years it would take to pay them off. If I thought that I would be able to pay them off through selling paintings, I would have been suffering from delusions of grandeur. While considering the debt I was taking on, I could have decided to pursue a commercial art degree, which many of my fellow students and friends did, and they immediately settled into comfortable positions at graphic design firms or became successful illustrators, industrial designers, etc. after graduation.
Some of us decided to study fine arts despite knowing we would be juggling making enough money in blue collar work to support our art habits and pay off our loans with carving out time to spend in the studio. It all comes down to making choices and then taking responsibility for those decisions. If Akbar had decided to live up to his own responsibilities and sent in a check for even $25/month during the rough periods, that would show good faith and the loans would not have fallen into default and into creditors’ hands. The educational loan programs do NOT want these loans going into default and will help graduates juggle paying them off. Contrast this with the sleazy loans and mortgage companies that rely on people not making even one onerous payment in full (the creditors banking on this, in fact). These are two entirely different animals.
Mr. Hooboy, thanks you for refraining from name calling. I really appreciate it. And I truly appreciate your perspective.
My student loans are through Nelnet and they have been very forgiving to me in times when I was not able to pay. I agree with you there.
Very similar to m experience with the mountain of medical bills I currently am facing. All you have to pay usually is something. That much is true. But sometimes one doesn’t even have something to pay. I know as I’ve been there too.
What do you think about my last question though and if indeed a degree is what is needed to succeed in America how can we make it more attainable for more folks? How do we keep our middle class from getting further and further into debt. Mr. hooboy it seems you and I might have gone to different types of schools. My undergraduate was 20K and that was 12 years ago. I’m still paying it back. Did you go to a private school and if so do you care to share what school it was?
I even went into the military for several years to pay some of it back, but not all of it. I still have around 5K to pay back. But times have really changed. Even a state school education of which I obtained has doubled in cost.
What are my children to do in fifteen years when even a state school university degree will put them 100K in debt right out of the gate? For the working poor like myself with medical bills up the yin yang, do you see an issue with putting our youth into that much debt as soon as they begin their adult lives?
I personally will not have the money to support my children’s education or most likely won’t be alive when that time comes. I know there are scholarships, but having been a student myself who lost state funding by .01 percent of a grade point average that would have cut my debt in half I see issue with the scholarship system also.
Byron, I absolutely agree that something needs to change. I did go to a private art school, I’d rather not say where, years ago, and coming from a lower middle class background made it through on grants and loans. I also agree with you, it was often scary trying to scrape together enough money to survive, I don’t want to make it sound easy. It’s not. It was, however, easier back then.
Today a college degree of any kind functions like a high school degree used to, and is responsible for widening the disparity between the haves and have-nots. Those whose parents can afford college get to go, get to have that degree which opens up most job opportunities, but even more importantly, gets to have the experience of spending 4 or more years in an environment that promotes critical thinking, creative problem solving, and helps teach people how to continue to learn and develop their intellects even after they are out in the so-called real world. It’s a crime that education has become so unattainable for a huge segment of the population, and greater than the unfairness of the situation is the danger that a two class society with an imposed underclass that is largely uneducated (and subsequently ignorant through no fault of their own) will bring down the stability of the U.S.
This is not the fault of professors or the institutions themselves, but a fault of society in general, of the U.S. taxpayers and politicians (although Obama has said that he wants to make the ability to attain a college education without onerous debt a right for every graduating high school senior who qualifies academically) not being willing to further subsidize higher education for the huge amounts of young people whose only barrier to attending is the prohibitive costs of doing so.
Thank you for you sincerity Mr. Hooboy. I believe the letter we sent out was only asking for a sincere response to those questions. We in no way thought or were trying to insinuate that the professors or the institutions were the cause of the widening gap between the haves and the have nots. I mean we realize we are all cogs in a machine. Everyone has their duties and everyone serves their master. That is a universal truth if anything is.
We truly and sincerely were just trying to get answers to the questions as you have so kindly alluded to in this last comment. Thank you for that. It really means a lot.
Even though the project has been closed your response alone has made it worth while in my mind. The issue is much larger than the professors and the institutions that much is true. But I do feel anyone in a position of authority should have answers to these questions even though that authority is often put at risk by the very institutions in which they serve by often threatening to undermine their job security in a very very small job market. Especially in a weak economy.
We truly intended the type of dialogue that you have just supplied us to be the outcome of the chicken wire project not the hateful comments we received in return. I really appreciate you taking the time to tell us what you think and feel.
If you have any input on how to progress with such projects without stirring up a wasps nest of hate I think Akbar and myself would really appreciate hearing it.
Was the letter too accusing and did it seem to be attacking the faculty it was sent to? We were not aware of that if it was and we both apologize if that’s how it was perceived.
I believe we both would like to proceed with the project, but only if there is a way to do it more diplomatically and peacefully. We’d be open to your input if you see a way to do so. If it’s a dead end and you think only hateful responses will be the outcome then we would like to truly bury the project.
I was thinking if made the letter more diplomatic and sent it out to a school that globatron had no personal affiliations with it would be received more positively.
Thank you Mr. Hooboy for your input.
Was the letter too accusing and did it seem to be attacking the faculty it was sent to? We were not aware of that if it was and we both apologize if that’s how it was perceived.
Yes, this.
If these letters had originated without what appeared to be a personal vendetta attached, it might have been more effective. many faculty already grapple with these issues, and of those that do, I think a large percentage even share those concerns with their students. At least this has been my experience. Also, the university system is not a large monolithic machine. There are lots of interests operating in conflict with each other- between faculty and the administration -note the ongoing votes of no confidence for president Bob Kerrey by faculty at New York’s New School, and subsequent not very effective protests launched by students- and between faculty members themselves. Ever been to a committee meeting? Makes the drama here seem almost tame.
A more diplomatic letter would have been the way to go, and it might have spurred some inclusive discussions rather than the us against them battles. This unintentionally unites individuals with a huge range of opinions and thoughts to band together in a concentrated effort to ward off perceived personal attacks. I don’t think this reaction was what you’d hoped for.
Glad to see the conversation getting back on track here. Good luck to you with your treatment.
-Out
Should I say:
- OUTed.
(restraining order/ hooboy)
I agree with the ethical dimension that is developing on this site. rational exchange allows for strong opinions, of which i have plenty. diversity and tolerance is exactly this, but the prohibition against personal attacks is a good one.
so here’s my confession: if somebody offered me a teaching job, i would take it, and if told not to speak up on something, and i had come to rely upon the income, i would probably fold. but in those gaps within society where i am allowed to speak loudly i do.
so here are some issues, in response to the dialogue about paying back student loans. there was a lot of talk about responsibility and choices.
choices are made best by informed people. psychologists have noted how adolescence in our society is an ever-expanding stage of life, and they generally define the end of adolescence as that time after college when a man or woman can sustain their own life. is it ethical for humans at such a stage of development, before they have access to the very education that the world says is necessary for such choices, to ask them to make said choices. is it an accident that the army and the credit companies directly market to that audience? just some questions.
also, i feel the same way about profiting from other peoples’ educations as I do about profiting from human incarceration. i know, this is a strong, anti-capitalistic opinion. but i am an idealist, and i’m ok with that, i’m also ok that some people have more conservative opinions than i do, but i am arguing here, i am responding to those who have called me a sociopath, trying in a moderate way to explain from where my beliefs originate.
one more idea. there are different kinds of debt. and what is a debt that one feels no connection or natural gratitude for. yes, one can claim i am ungrateful, but the very education i stole taught me about power and oppression and corruption and idealized those people in history who made a stand against such things. so, am i to pay my debt to the financiers or to those people who put their lives on the line so that my education had its content. these are conflicting debt structures, and i chose, in some places in my life to choose rebellion. in other words, who do i owe a greater debt to, the credit industry that seeks to profit off of my dreams, or to those who gave me dreams in the first place. i am not claiming to have an answer here, i state this as a paradox in life, but i did make a choice.
i did not make my choice to deny my debt lightly, i studied the decision, and i took on certain sacrifices to make that stand, that live with me to this day. but still, i am happy with those choices. i am at peace with that.
i had a best friend who could not do as i did, because his father was a cosigner and it would ruin his father’s credit. if i was in his position i would do as he did, try not to betray my father. i was able to make my stand, some weren’t, it’s all part of it. i do believe some happiness is derived from a little bit of healthy dissent in society, but that is a separate discussion.
akbar
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