this is an interesting compilation. interesting, and perhaps somewhat ironic, that FDR articulated freedom from fear in a speech given in 1941, before America’s entry in a war that would end with the “crash of a bomb.” actually two bombs, in rapid succession. and those events set in motion a new period of war and a new era of fear. FDR knew about the development of the atomic bomb, of course, but he did not order its release on the Japanese. i wonder what decision he would have made had he lived. he was after all talking about “human freedoms,” and not “American freedoms.” strange to think how captivated history is by individual personalities.
Good point. That is quite ironic actually. All of it. Which makes me think of the irony of freedom in general. How a country that was built in a pressure cooker from oppression by the British and infringements by the Spanish and French rallied for an ideal such as Freedom, and used Freedom as the battle call for our winning our independence. Only to suppress slaves and women for many many years afterward.
Now we have a small American history to look back upon. We can find how others have actually taken away the freedoms of many at points in American history. McCarthyism comes to mind. And when this happens it has always been for some deluded concept of retaining what’s best for the country. Looking backward to Wounded Knee we can see a historical precedent for America to look away while slaughtering innocents for something larger. For the better good.
Am I proud to be an American on this 4th of July weekend? I am proud to have the freedoms I have. Most definitely. I worry about them being taken away by the very country that so many have died for; for this idea of freedom. I’m proud of the future of America as I do think we could make a lot of wonderful changes correcting the path of the last administration. I’m proud of the future. I have hope for the future of America.
But to answer the question. No. I’m not proud to be an American. I feel ashamed actually. Shame for the bloodied history of tyranny that has been forced upon its citizens in defense of freedom. Shame for the Vietnam War and Operation Iraqi Freedom, and I could go on. Funny thing is I don’t think I’m alone. I might be one of the few willing to admit it publicly, with the fear of being called a communist pinko always present. I honestly feel all Americans should have some shame for American foreign policy and our bloody American history. Yes I’m proud of America’s stand against the Nazis. Most definitely. That seems to be the only war that was necessary in the past century. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
So basically this idea of freedom has been used to fight so many wars, so many battles, physically and ideologically. That’s what is upsetting to me. I enjoy these freedoms. I don’t take them lightly. Especially after seeing what is happening in Iran and observing the oppression they endure in order speak out against their government. But I question what this idea of freedom means and what our government will do here and abroad to defend it. I question the politics of freedom. And I question it being a mantra to disguise political actions. I question it being a band-aid to disguise atrocities.
If you can please tell me why I should feel proud to be an American I would appreciate it, as I would truly like to be. Maybe looking forward is the only way for me to do that.
- 3 July 2009 at 2:03 pm
Logocentric said:
i think that you bring up some very interesting and important points, Globatron. it seems that to recognize that american history is so short is also to admit a set of possibilities–a potential for discovery that we have only begun to recognize. to be sure, in the realm of social history, there has been incredible carnage and oppression, to the point that one is tempted to throw up one’s arms and curse the experiment as a lesson in how not to treat others. i think that is valuable in itself. i do not in any way want to diminish the suffering and hardships that individuals and groups have endured as a result of imperialist, racist, and sexist policies and attitudes that lauded the superiority of a particular brand of “progress” or conservatism. and of course, such policies of conquest and the overcoming of nature through technology have put all of us–the species as a whole–in a bind since the industrial revolution.
but to recognize the discoveries that have happened in that relatively short span of time– to see how influential the “american experience” has been in areas of science and ideas about the nature of reality is to perhaps find some meaning in the suffering and oppression in the past. it’s hard to describe this thought. i do think it is important to discuss histories of oppression and brutality, that we may learn to avoid their replication in the future. but there is also the idea that the “pressure cooker,” as you put it, has given the world quite a lot of insight on the possibilities for diverse ideas and cultures coming into contact and working out ways to interact for the good of the whole. it sort of surprises me that i am arguing along these lines, as i have concentrated much of my thought on the injustices committed in american history in the name of freedom, etc., just as you’ve very vividly argued. but perhaps it is also good to take a long view into the future and ask how we might do something that answers that past in a responsible way.
so perhaps the question of “pride” in america could be translated into something like “hope” or “determination.” i am not proud of america’s past, as a model for the treatment of human beings and on the whole for the negotiation of cultural/social differences. but it seems that an assumption of pride for a past in which one did not personally participate is a misplaced assumption. to be sure, i have inherited attitudes and ideas from the past with which i must deal and which i must ponder and ask whether or not they are valid for my present identity and interactions with others today. perhaps that is a good direction in which to concentrate one’s understanding of history. it might also be useful to imagine that one is fortunate to be free of many–though not all–of the hardships that plagued many of our predecessors. and it might be good to ask how to honor the humanity of the past by seeking to dethrone unthinking attitudes of “pride” that many seem to hold today.
- 4 July 2009 at 4:38 am
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this is an interesting compilation. interesting, and perhaps somewhat ironic, that FDR articulated freedom from fear in a speech given in 1941, before America’s entry in a war that would end with the “crash of a bomb.” actually two bombs, in rapid succession. and those events set in motion a new period of war and a new era of fear. FDR knew about the development of the atomic bomb, of course, but he did not order its release on the Japanese. i wonder what decision he would have made had he lived. he was after all talking about “human freedoms,” and not “American freedoms.” strange to think how captivated history is by individual personalities.
Good point. That is quite ironic actually. All of it. Which makes me think of the irony of freedom in general. How a country that was built in a pressure cooker from oppression by the British and infringements by the Spanish and French rallied for an ideal such as Freedom, and used Freedom as the battle call for our winning our independence. Only to suppress slaves and women for many many years afterward.
Now we have a small American history to look back upon. We can find how others have actually taken away the freedoms of many at points in American history. McCarthyism comes to mind. And when this happens it has always been for some deluded concept of retaining what’s best for the country. Looking backward to Wounded Knee we can see a historical precedent for America to look away while slaughtering innocents for something larger. For the better good.
Am I proud to be an American on this 4th of July weekend? I am proud to have the freedoms I have. Most definitely. I worry about them being taken away by the very country that so many have died for; for this idea of freedom. I’m proud of the future of America as I do think we could make a lot of wonderful changes correcting the path of the last administration. I’m proud of the future. I have hope for the future of America.
But to answer the question. No. I’m not proud to be an American. I feel ashamed actually. Shame for the bloodied history of tyranny that has been forced upon its citizens in defense of freedom. Shame for the Vietnam War and Operation Iraqi Freedom, and I could go on. Funny thing is I don’t think I’m alone. I might be one of the few willing to admit it publicly, with the fear of being called a communist pinko always present. I honestly feel all Americans should have some shame for American foreign policy and our bloody American history. Yes I’m proud of America’s stand against the Nazis. Most definitely. That seems to be the only war that was necessary in the past century. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
So basically this idea of freedom has been used to fight so many wars, so many battles, physically and ideologically. That’s what is upsetting to me. I enjoy these freedoms. I don’t take them lightly. Especially after seeing what is happening in Iran and observing the oppression they endure in order speak out against their government. But I question what this idea of freedom means and what our government will do here and abroad to defend it. I question the politics of freedom. And I question it being a mantra to disguise political actions. I question it being a band-aid to disguise atrocities.
If you can please tell me why I should feel proud to be an American I would appreciate it, as I would truly like to be. Maybe looking forward is the only way for me to do that.
i think that you bring up some very interesting and important points, Globatron. it seems that to recognize that american history is so short is also to admit a set of possibilities–a potential for discovery that we have only begun to recognize. to be sure, in the realm of social history, there has been incredible carnage and oppression, to the point that one is tempted to throw up one’s arms and curse the experiment as a lesson in how not to treat others. i think that is valuable in itself. i do not in any way want to diminish the suffering and hardships that individuals and groups have endured as a result of imperialist, racist, and sexist policies and attitudes that lauded the superiority of a particular brand of “progress” or conservatism. and of course, such policies of conquest and the overcoming of nature through technology have put all of us–the species as a whole–in a bind since the industrial revolution.
but to recognize the discoveries that have happened in that relatively short span of time– to see how influential the “american experience” has been in areas of science and ideas about the nature of reality is to perhaps find some meaning in the suffering and oppression in the past. it’s hard to describe this thought. i do think it is important to discuss histories of oppression and brutality, that we may learn to avoid their replication in the future. but there is also the idea that the “pressure cooker,” as you put it, has given the world quite a lot of insight on the possibilities for diverse ideas and cultures coming into contact and working out ways to interact for the good of the whole. it sort of surprises me that i am arguing along these lines, as i have concentrated much of my thought on the injustices committed in american history in the name of freedom, etc., just as you’ve very vividly argued. but perhaps it is also good to take a long view into the future and ask how we might do something that answers that past in a responsible way.
so perhaps the question of “pride” in america could be translated into something like “hope” or “determination.” i am not proud of america’s past, as a model for the treatment of human beings and on the whole for the negotiation of cultural/social differences. but it seems that an assumption of pride for a past in which one did not personally participate is a misplaced assumption. to be sure, i have inherited attitudes and ideas from the past with which i must deal and which i must ponder and ask whether or not they are valid for my present identity and interactions with others today. perhaps that is a good direction in which to concentrate one’s understanding of history. it might also be useful to imagine that one is fortunate to be free of many–though not all–of the hardships that plagued many of our predecessors. and it might be good to ask how to honor the humanity of the past by seeking to dethrone unthinking attitudes of “pride” that many seem to hold today.
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