HAWHAHWHAW! Classic! Good show Byron! I love it. I half thought you’d be holding a scimitar and the camera would pan back to reveal a Monster Artist kneeling in front of you and then THWOP! Off with it.
This is good because you know my feelings about stylish cute monster doodles. But of course now I have to do some monsters of my own. But they sure as frig won’t be cute. And folio can suck it. They’re trying to sell ads after all. Problematic art (like accurate news reporting) just don’t sell.
Love it.
- 31 May 2008 at 1:21 pm
morrison said:
i am glad you went through with it the new mr. terrorist rogers has been born. long live the art critic…
glad you enjoyed the first installment. i think the mask gives it legs. not sure where I can go with it but it allows me to talk openly about things i can’t without the mask for some reason. maybe I’ll push the Mr. Rogers bit. Didn’t want to push the terrorist mask bit too much as that scares the shit out of me. i find the black mask to be interesting in general in our culture. when you see someone with a black mask on they usually aren’t there to have a good time.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with “Monster Art” as you call it. Many people are seeking outside outlets and sources for art and decorations. If everyone in Jacksonville painted f*ing palm trees and beaches, we would live in a very depraved city. Insted of bashing the people who are trying to think out of the box, perhaps you should bash the people who keep thinking in.
Also, why does every single piece of art have to have motivation behind it? Most artist create art just to create… not write a thesis on every single piece. I could say much more about this subject but I don’t know you personally nor know your reason for thinking you are the top dog concerning Jacksonville’s art scene (sounds like we have another Stephen Dare on our hands.. God help us). I do know, however, I have never personally seen you or your art in any of the art walks or galleries…. And I just viewed your site, and forgive me, but your art looks pretty “Monsterish” as well. Perhaps you should update your portfolio a bit more before bashing other people’s work, no matter how crazy or zany it may seem. Some of us don’t like to conform to beachside tourist standards.
I will say one thing Color Manifestation… My last two projects have been directly related to commenting on monster art and what it means to society.
thanks for the input though. monster art is not thinking out of any box my friend. it’s just a new box.
- 1 June 2008 at 4:35 pm
Ben said:
Someone on their soap box. How cute.
Stefanie makes some good points. There isn’t anything wrong with monster art; it is an expression of what people want to do. If you want to make art about nonviolence and corrupt America, go ahead. But keep this in mind: When you say monster art is an aphathic cancer hanging on our walls, then it’s just as likely that “art with meaning” will be overblown, not subtle, and over the top. That if we are ‘judging’ here, then the art you want to create will not be so different than monster art as it will be cheap and largely scoffed.
How about this; instead of wasting people’s time wearing a mask and lamenting the fall of good art, you go out and meet some artists. It takes some balls to call other people’s work shit and it’s for certain to write them off as pointless. Is all monster art pointless? I don’t know. Is painting squares on a canvas pointless? A huge black canvas pointless? A toilet in an art museum? I don’t know. Why don’t you get off your soap box and find out… for each and every monster artist out there. If anything, we don’t need anymore hiding masks or sweeping generalizations.
- 1 June 2008 at 5:01 pm
BO & ED said:
IF YOU LIKE “MONSTERART” WITH A REAL MESSAGE THAT MIGHT GO OVER THE HEAD OF THE SOFT SPOKEN SOUTHERN GENTLEMAN W/ THE MASK ON….. CHECK OUT THE 2 GUYS THAT DO IT BEST @ COMICS AND CLASSICS IN JAX BEACH ON THE 7TH OF JUNE FROM 7-9PM!
THE GUEST W/ THE BEST MASK GETS TO HAVE THEIR PICTURE TAKEN W/ THE ARTISTS!!!!
HUGS!
MYSPACE.COM/EDBOARTSHOW
well guys. the new series Art Coverage is here to stay so you can look forward to more sweeping generalizations. and the guy in the mask, jeez. just good old fashion fun. lighten up a bit.
I declare a new form of art. Palm tree monsters. Monsters made out of palm trees. Florida beach scenes with monsters hiding in the sand dunes. Robotic seagulls with horns and antlers. Yes… It will be a huge hit. Mark my words. When is the first show?
I’d like to throw a few opinions into the mix here.
Regarding Byron, having read JaxCal since the time of the Portent show, he seems to be someone sincerely and passionately searching for honest dialog. I have never heard him become indignant at harsh criticisms of his own work - he seems to be begging for it if anything. Although the criticisms only seem to manifest as a reaction to his own words.
There seems to be a “judge not lest ye be judged” message in the comments here. I would think Byron is saying yes, please judge, let’s actually talk about it.
Regarding “monster art” (there may be a more accurate descriptor), I think it would not be intellectually dishonest to first recognize it as a real scene, movement, trend, or even gestalt (for better or for worse). When pressed, I’ve seen artists claiming absolute individual expression which seems a bit far fetched. The hallmarks are pretty obvious, flat colors, thick outlines, a specific subset of iconography (it can’t be a coincidence that we’ve seen many artists, even locally, using one-up mushrooms and skulls). I’m tempted to post a list of websites to express the actual breadth, depth, and long history of this type of work. Succinctly, if you’ve been following art in the last 15 years, you’ve seen it.
Please understand that my comment is not disparaging the movement and I certainly recognize luminaries that I would consider to be part of it, like “Crayola one” and Jeff Soto. I am however defending the critical analysis of it (and by extension, any work).
Ben, right on. I’m all for people judging or even hating my work. All for it. I hope you hate my work and not feel apathetic about it.
More than anything I’m for JaxCAL being a place where we can talk openly about art forms of all types.
Having been involved in the “monster art”, low brow scene myself if not only by association I found the majority of low brow artists not ready or willing, or capable of talking about the concepts behind their work.
That to me is very disappointing and a bit depressing since I know our generation has so many worldy problems to solve in our lifetimes and the lifetimes of our children. It’s sort of if we don’t fix it now it will be broken forever. And to see a generation of artists seemingly stuck in apathetic illustration of monsters without even understanding why they are drawing monsters is disheartening.
So yeah, let’s talk about it. I mean maybe all of these “monster artists” have some really deep concepts and just don’t know how to talk about them. Maybe there’s a reason that a large majority of the younger artists have decided to follow this art form other than I like to skate board, do graffiti, and read comic books. It seems that is the textbook answer that all low brow artists fall back on.
There has to be a reason that such a large group of artists has decided to stick to this art form. Often times humanity works mysteriously through a collective unconscious. Sometimes decisions are being made for the group on that subconscious level and not until years later, decades even, will we know why this type of art is being made.
so yeah. you can hate on me. fine. but let’s talk about it and try to understand it.
Do you think that the monsters, following Byron’s comment about unconscious collective motives, are manifestations of what is within, or what is without? That is, is the monster a representation of some unseen part of yourself, or is the monster the avatar of something in the outer environment?
Why make these monsters? Are they characters that appear in your psyches that, like fictional characters, must be put onto paper (or what have you) for you to have peace? Are there stories behind these characters?
Stefanie, most artists I know don’t create just to create. That’s masturbation. We might as well fall back into DaDa-ist art if we don’t want to create art with meaning. Creating just to create is a waste of time and energy. And in the face of apocalyptic troubles–the environment, the economy, the seeming inevitability of war–who wants to waste time? People who are content with this world the way it is, that’s who. Those who aren’t content make art with motive. Creating something with motive, even if it is simply exploratory or experimental, is vindicating. It gives purpose to one’s efforts. The meaning behind it is the reason it should exist. If there is no reason for something to exist, to be seen and experienced, it may as well not.
This is an underlying point of the argument against monster art.
hey byron whats up with the hate? My name is Clay Doran, though you probably would know me as squid dust. I appreciate you reading my article. However, I feel like you are pretty misled with the whole monster art critique. there are 1000 questions I could ask you about your concept of valuable art. But I’ll trim it down a little bit.
First of all, Do you feel that art is only pure if it is a comment on society? Do feel like artist such as DuChamp, Darger, Basquiat or even Rothko and Pollock are cheapening art history with their loose interpretations of Art? Do the twisted monsters of Bosch, Murakami, and Steadman not qualify as true “art”? What about the wonderful worlds created by edward Gorey, Richard Scarry, and Maurice Sendak? Do they not qualify under your “this is art guidelines”?
In an art scene where barry mcgee, michael sieben, Pushead, and Neckface, are selling out in every gallery they touch…i think you are starting your I HATE MONSTER ART speech a little late.
Sadly art has always had its haters. People probably wouldve made cute videos of how the impressionists ruined painting, or how non religious art should be burned… sadly webcams and ski masks were not readily available back then. Even Adolf Hitler held the first exhibition of “outsider art” to laugh at the pieces he thought “didnt qualify” So yes its nothing new for artists to create a negative buzz around art they dont embrace.
Maybe instead of bashing fellow artists in the community, you could understand that art isnt about a skill level, a message, or a medium… Art is many things. Almost impossible to define…but i dont think byron has figured it out. I dont think that little ole byron king in jacksonville florida has the right to tell anyone that what they create is not valid…..
If you still feel that all monster artists are shallow and apathetic you may like my abstract paintings at http://www.claydoran.com. Im having an opening in riverside june 21st. Maybe you could stop in and tell me how my fine art portfolio is worthless or how my influences bastardized your precious “fine art” with their lack of respect to your “art rules”.
If you still need help I can clear up exactly why I make monsters (and abstact paintings), who my art historical references are, and why your childish “hatin’” means nothing to me or this art scene. If you plan on being the wedge that pulls apart jacksonville art scene….good luck…but im not going to sit back and watch.
cheer up!,
ClayDoran
aka
squid dust
p.s. the mask is cute but Ive been in the around jacksonville for a little while and I know what you look like. Ill make sure to answer every last question you have next time i see you in person.
first of all Clay. i hope you know what I look like because I have a video of myself on my home page, byronking.com.
if you want to talk about your work that’s fine but don’t come on this site and threaten me. i hope you weren’t. i’d really appreciate that.
here’s a question for you. if you want to have real dialogue and not make threats answer this. Why are you an artist?
What’s behind your monster art? The concepts? yes, I’d love you to talk about that. Enlighten us as the article didn’t have any of that in it.
Just checked out your abstract paintings and they are rather nice to look at. What do you want the viewer to get from them? They seem decorative. Is that conscious? I’m interested in how you make the abstract work and the monster art. Do you work on the series consecutively?
I like the wedge comment. If a wedge causes real truthful diaologue about art and the world then I’m all for that.
- 1 June 2008 at 9:07 pm
morrison said:
it has been a while since real dialogue has happened here and it comes from where all the so calleds are making a stink over themselves and why or why not they make objects. i agree with bk for creating this character this tired scene needs some refreshing far too long have the shit artists and writers been taken serious. The decline of values at the bottom of a pit we have built over this last decade is reason enough not to like what you make, there is no content that i have seen in the scene of monsters that has any relevance other than a tim burton esque ripoff of the nightmare before christmas. childrens imagination has more to offer and we all are leaving them a ruined planet art has a purpose and should move to change the status quo.
are you kidding? of course i was not threatening you…i was inviting you to talk to me in person…you know, instead of arguing on the Internet. since we all know that would be ridiculous.
cool. good to know. this is all for good fun man. the video was done in a comedic tone. the mask and the character was used to help me ask some questions and maybe get some answers I couldn’t ask without it. i’m definitely not trying to hide my identity.
i’d love to know more about your work. i’ll be at the Bogda show this Saturday. Maybe we could do a video interview. that would be a great follow up to this I think. hope you are down for it.
i think as long as we are open and honest and keep pushing ourselves as an artistic community there’s nothing we can’t do. we can’t be scared to speak our minds. if somoene doesn’t like something then say you don’t like it. but then say why? then try and get some answers. learn a little bit about the artist and yourself. that’s my take on it.
art is a conversation. if we don’t have these conversations then we won’t be evolving as an artistic community I think. not nearly as quickly as I think we all want it to evolve.
- 2 June 2008 at 12:05 am
artisfuntoo said:
seems like a good “critic” may have actually tried to learn a little bit about the artist he’s singling out, perhaps by trying to pose these types of questions personally, before presenting judgment in a manner that definitely comes across as condescending and hostile, regardless of whatever “tone” that was intended.
your methods towards encouraging growth in our artistic community leave a lot to be desired. it seems that the energy you gathered from your negative emotions towards this type of art and then expended on creating a silly video for the internet could have been better spent developing and advancing your own artist endeavors, rather than worrying about what everyone else is doing.
everyone has a right to their opinion. hope to see more positive contributions towards artists in the community from you soon.
- 2 June 2008 at 1:04 am
valuistics said:
I think an elephant in this room not being talked about is this- I’m pretty sure everyone agrees that art just for fun is cool if not necessary for creative lubrication, but a scene loaded down with folks just seemingly having fun and shits and giggles is just as tiresome as any other scene devoid of honest critique and dialog. I don’t think there’s anyone among us who feels that all art should only be smartypants art all about concepts and earth-shattering issues. The real trick, everybody, is doing something that has weight AND is accessible enough not to alienate the public. It’s called balance. I think that’s what Byron’s (HEY IT’S HUMOROUS!) masked critique is about. Balance it out. Define what the monster is. Think about what you’re doing beyond the cool factor. Shit, you’ll all be doing it once you get a little age on ya. Am I right?
byron king and all his cronies make me want to diiiiiiiiiiiie every time someone says “omg, did you read what byron said today???”
wait, did i just say cronies?
ah sheesh.
congrats, cronies!
byron loves you.
someone please paint me dying, call it a monster, and hang it in a fucking gallery.
i thought you were giving up on this blog months ago?
surely you have something better to do than open up your skewed “dialogue” or whatever you want to call it.
go on, list all your projects and how awesome shmawesome you are and how you DO indeed have something better to do.
if its humor youre going for, be fucking hilarious.
if its dialogue you want, stop being stupid.
no, i’m not attacking you.
that’s an objective statement.
you’re being stupid.
you’re making poor choices that are leading you further down a road you REALLY don’t want to be down.
someone compared you to stephen dare already!
ewwwww!
monsters are funny.
dan may paints monsters.
you love dan may!
wait wait wait!
i got it.
squid dust’s monsters are a statement on the war. how the imagery from the war has desensitized the artist sjkawh genkelj toyjgmm…oh shit, sorry i’m falling asleep again.
Bottom line. It not the questions being asked…its how Byron asks the question. Its totaly negative and so was the video. Why couldnt you have just sent Clay a message and asked him about his work just like ya could have done when we had out last conversation about my work. Your video is really negative and just pisses people off…not creating a dialogue about anything except frustration. I really didnt wanna even post up on this but, i had a couple people tell me about this thing and i just cant help it now. One comment you made, and have made before really sticks with me. You said that there are really talented artist out there but we are not tackling real issues…were just painting monsters with no real meanning behind it all. You mentioned global warming,poverty, famine, the war, all things we should try and involve in our work in some way. Try to take on the big issues and do whatever. I remember not to long ago Logan Zawacki came to JaxCal looking for some artists to get involved with his charity he was doing for cancer research. All he asked of ALL of us was a donated piece of art work. I was really suprised to find out that me, Logan, and his friend david were the only people to donate anything. You would think that a dude with a bunch of trophy soldiers could have donated something…anything..to help out a good cause. I mean its not the war or famine but, hell…it was a way to use art as a method to help a person in need. Logan set a goal of just 1,000. With the three of us and some help from a charity race Logan was able to raise 2,000 and had only two other artists participate in his cause. Has anyones work here in Jacksonville taken on any major issues…have you Byron? Have you really spread the word about whatever cause your fighting for? Ya got to have your work in the publics eye to do that…you got to get out there and get into shows, gallerys, whatever. Its a lot easier to sit back and critique what other do. I have painted my “apathetic” work for a while now and have been involved in a ton of charities that have helped people in need. Lets see…Byron has drawn characters to express his feelings about the war and just recently exxon…over the past several years…..Thats it. Thats all. Wait to go…geez, i really feel like ive been slacking over the past year since ive been painting for the public. Who has seen your work? Anyone been changed or some how effected by it? Is that the goal of every artist now? I try my best to help wherever i can with my art work. I hope everyone does but, do i need to paint something that somehow comments about the war or exxon spills to be a good artist now? What the hell is art to Byron? Really…what is art to you? What would make a good art scene here in Jacksonville??? What is a good art scene??? Where is this great art scene you long for? What would it be like?? Who deserves to shape Jacksonvilles art scene? I have the answer. Us. The monster artists, surreal artists, abstracts,graffiti,urban art,and the lowbrow artists. It funny to see how people can say whatever they want but, we are the ones busting our asses, doing shows, and making things happen. One thing i noticed durring last Art Walk..which im sure makes everyone skin crawl…is that a lot of people came out to say hi to me and ed dansart at the art center. One thing i thought was interesting is that the people who come out to see me all the time have been bringing more and more friends. I have noticed that more and more work from some of the fine artists and landscape art has now been selling. The images some of us paint really draws in a crowd to see what were doing. Now i can see a trend that not only is the public comming by to see what I got cooking but, they are really starting to take interest in the other art work thats available. The monster art work is like a gateway drug. People see it, theres not major concepts in some of it, its easy on the eyes, makes people smile, and then they start to look at the other paingings. The fine art…the landscapes…and they start to appreciate the skill it takes in that type of work as well as instalations, music experimentation, and all forms of art. Its very easy to fall in love with a monster painting..there fun, affordable, and people dig it. I believe it truly is an introduction to the arts for a lot of the younger crowd out there who is just now taking an apreciation in the arts. Eventually they will get older and will not want a alien taking over a local barber shop hanging on there wall when there 60. They will want the more expensive work…the landscapes…the palm trees…the beach. I do agree with what valuistics had to say…it is about balance but,When is monster art gonna die? LOL…oh man.
- 2 June 2008 at 3:14 am
mad monster man said:
ok,i was at the last joe van Dyke art show on sat and i must say there was not much monster art to speak of i mean ed and clay and a few others which ok fine byron don’t like monster art……..but what i heard is that your stuff hasn’t gotten much hype so your angry at clay shame one you Byron king i don’t know you but I’m a collector of art of all kinds
there is something you should know sometimes monsters take human form and those are the ones you should look out for.issues…indeed you have issues.think before you do something like this again.
the monster crowd is really just showing it’s maturity here or lack there of. i’m going to turn off comments on this post as it’s just getting ridiculous now. glad you all were able to let off a little steam. this just shows that the majority of you all can’t have an intelligent conversation about your art. that’s the bottom line really. if you could that’s what this post was for and this was a perfect chance for you all to do so. instead you did what you did. congratulations. hope you feel better.
i originally turned off comments on this post. I’m turning them back on and for the first time in jaxcal history I am going to moderate hateful hurtful comments off this site. if you want to have dialogue about your art fine, but don’t come on here spewing hatred. i recommend reading all the comments on here too before commenting as you will see this isn’t a site for hateful commentary and this is all in good fun. i feel maybe there is a little more insight we can all get from a good dialogue on this subject matter.
and really anyone who got upset over this post, please lighten up a little bit. Valuistics had some great input just now too. Thanks for that.
- 2 June 2008 at 1:48 pm
morrison said:
out of all the art blogs in jville jaxcal has conversation and the surfers drop by for the content, i visit the other blogs most are lacking.
- 2 June 2008 at 3:55 pm
mad monster man said:
well well well you opened Pandora’s box you really can’t be to surprised what people think and say considering how intellectually incapable the jax art scean is in your opinion, you wanted dialog well this is what I’m doing here so i have a question? for Byron king
1.are you jealous of clay doran?
2.are you not a fan of free speech?
3.how many accolades has your work received in the last 5 calender years?
I’m not here to spew hate speech just a guy with a few questions
This post wasn’t meant to be about me. It questions the concepts behind the monster art movement in general.
That’s what I was addressing. The concepts. I’d love folks to talk about that. And I’m not jealous of anyone.
My web site has all of my latest news outlined, http://www.byronking.com/art/news
and my artist resume is here: http://byronking.com/art/about
I’m not doing too bad I don’t think. but you judge. you tell me if I’m cool enough to have an opinion about monster art.
I was in the Army three months after 911 doing great work for our country cleaning toilets so your five years question doesn’t apply to me unless you want to see my military ribbons and you count those. I think I still have them.
of course I believe in free speech. that’s exactly why I posted this and post almost every day on jaxcal.
you don’t agree with me. that’s fine. i get it. i think the concepts of that movement could be raised a few notches. I’m tired of seeing cartoons of monsters that have no symbolism or connection to our world that is going down the tubes.
i want drastic change. I want everyone involved in pushing the buttons, stirring the pot and questioning the status quo. Is that possible? I hope so.
- 2 June 2008 at 5:00 pm
Shaun said:
I read all the comments… here’s my opinion: it’s not art when you make it, it takes other people to argue whether or not it’s ART. By voicing your criticism you have validated something you wanted to dismiss. these monster images bring out the monsters and protectors in all the people who have commented on here and despite the fact that you don’t like the imagery because you can’t see the concept behind it, you have unwittingly become a champion of its worth.
painting monsters is fun.
Clay should thank you, you should look into the camera, I should shut up and go make something… maybe lunch.
shazam. very wise indeed. I agree 100 percent. We might not know what these monsters mean to our society for years and years to come.
I believe there has to be something deeper to this and that they are a part of our collective unconscious.
- 2 June 2008 at 5:43 pm
sean said:
you know what i want?
i want to see a skull zombie that’s vomiting snakes.
just sayin.
to me, “monster art” as you’ve dubbed it is not a drastic change or a reaction to the status quo that stirs the pot, but it is a distraction.
we all need a distraction.
byron king needs a distraction.
please heed your own advice and carefully re-read clay’s initial comment to your attack. note the artists he cites…understand his point of view. i think you will find the answers you so diligently seek through this brilliant “dialogue” you’ve begun.
what you did was attack an artist who is producing work and being talked about in a positive light. you may not like it, and i think thats fine, but presenting your opinion in the manner you did on this site — a (mostly) public forum — opens you up for all the reactions you got (and that you deserve). these are not attacks…they are not sippin the haterade, mr king…they are reactions. reactions to your overarching, generalized, and mostly under-educated opinion(s).
please get off your high horse, take off the ski mask (even though it is oh so funny), and look at the pretty picture for what it is: a zombie head vomiting snakes.
there’s your social commentary.
there’s your stirring the pot.
there’s your questioning byron king’s status quo.
- 2 June 2008 at 5:43 pm
Allan said:
you’re so right bro.
Beavis and Butthead bro. brilliant.
that’s all we need… the world needs action and thinkers not folks sniffing glue and drawing zombie cartoons.
you all have some good points but I’m apt to agree with the world needing less monster art and more action.
thing is it takes braincells to think. conceptual art is harder to make than drawing funny laughable sidekick hipster cool kid illustrations.
Not a single peice from this collection of work resembles any other piece in this list or elsewhare.
There are no overarching themes or motifs. Every single piece is completely new and revolutionary.
To find similarity in any of this type of work, or to refer to it by a generalized term would be the heinous act of an uneducated “hater”.
To ask WHY it all shares similar themes will be considered tactless and aggressive.
Let’s be honest, this stuff isn’t brewing in a vacuum in Jax. If you’re doing this kind of work, own it. If you don’t like the term “monster art” give us a new term.
I’m also kinda shocked by all the indignation at having your work questioned and criticized.
My work has been sneered at and flat out dismissed many times and I think alot of it has helped me break out of my limited mindset and grow.
Frankly, I would be joyous if people cared this much about the stuff I do.
And lest I be branded a cronie, I should say that I have never even met Byron nor do I agree with his notions of art. In fact I strongly disagree with alot of them, but that’s irrelevent.
“O! beware, my lord, of jealousy; It is the green-eyed monster which doth mock the meat it feeds on”
–Shakespeare
- 2 June 2008 at 7:19 pm
valuistics said:
Allan:
Well put, bra.
I still believe anything goes as long as it can be backed up. Just like all this talk, art needs to be backed up with something, anything. So far I have not heard the monster artists weighing in here actually back up their work with anything besides “hey it’s a free country.” Which may be enough… for now.
But there needs to be more… As part of their audience, I say there needs to be more. Because once the fad passes, there will be the hard core who survive and the weak sauce who fall by the by & by. I think the crux of the biscuit here isn’t how history remembers cute/evil monster styles, but that we (Byron in particular) are sick of seeing it again and again.
Many seem to be acting like their work needs no backing up because it is cool and may actually sell and with that they have the opportunity to pad their resume by doing a charity show or two. I say just give what cash you can to the charity and keep your art real.
I say that they are in a place at the moment where the tide has turned in their direction and everything looks peachy keen for their cute work. That’s exactly when you ought to be suspicious, when things look too good… I’ve been around enough to know that once you’ve been picked up as a flavor d’jour you need to check yourself. Doesn’t mean you should stop doing monsters or stop doing what you’re doing, it just means you need to start backing it up with common sense ideas besides ‘it’s cool’ and ‘I’m doing it cuz I can so fuck all y’all.’ Show your audience that you are a relevant artist and not a here-today cool stylist. Otherwise your work will follow when the STYLE crashes in coolness. And it will. Cool is perishable. Solid concepts have a long shelf-life.
Maybe concepts and ideas put you to sleep the way an art history lecture in school might have, but in order to survive time, the majority of you need to go back to school. and pop some No-Doz and listen if you want to bee seen as serious. Otherwise your moment will be short and then you’ll be like the middle aged landscape/seascape painter. Out of ideas and unstylish to boot.
Study your history. Whoever don’t, I pity the fool like Mr. T.
- 2 June 2008 at 7:25 pm
kurt polkey said:
Is there an artists movement I didn’t know about in our city. Is Monster Art the “thing”? Are you guys and gals a new school? Is there a space or website that I can see your work all together?
Also, there isn’t any type of art that walks the line between important and boring as much as political or social art.
- 2 June 2008 at 8:05 pm
mad monster man said:
well once again Byron its me I’m back your little vid really did stir the pot as it seems here in jax beach everybody’s talking about you and your post oh and hats off to you for serving our country during a time of need…….but that don’t give you free rain to say and do whatever you like now this is your site and i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings but think how you made some of the “monster artist” feel in Jacksonville i wasn’t tiring to belittle you i was defending this local art scene with my long teeth and claws lol by-the-way post another vid but this time loose the mask you don’t need it your a man.everyone knows who you are any hooo.
aren’t you same person who asked me if I believe in freedom of speech?
of course I can say and do whatever I want regardless of me having served my country. But thanks for the respect on that.
It’s a free country my friend. Lot’s of people have died so people like me can post silly little videos like this one.
the whole point of the video anyway was to get people to think and have a conversation about the work. and again it was all in good fun so please folks chill out.
OK, so first of all no one on this blog has enough experience or clout to talk shit on anyone else for making an attempt at getting paid, being an illustrator or doing what you love.
Second, there isn’t a social commentary in most of this style of work. Thats why its “low-brow” and thats why its art. Long explanations about your art can only go so far. Some of us like to do this shit and thats all it is. Doing something we enjoy and making a living off of it. So there. We all have a different idea of it’s importance or roll in society, and I personally think its solely an expression of creative freedom. Nothing more nothing less.
PS Thanks for the link “A different Ben”
- 3 June 2008 at 12:25 am
Bridget said:
WOW. This whole exchange is one of the most brilliant pieces of performance art I’ve seen.
Byron became a monster to turn the mirror on the monster art. And the monster artists became monsters when confronted with a monster. And on and on. I’m a monster, too! BOO!
- 3 June 2008 at 2:59 am
valuistics said:
I’d like to point out that no one here was shit talking about artists getting paid. We are all in favor of that, I believe, and why wouldn’t we be? Secondly, I don’t feel I personally have more clout that anyone, but I do have experiences I don’t hear being echoed here, and the only perspective I have is one gleaned from my own experience. I have worked in education at the college level for about 5 years and have seen visual art fads come and go. Juxtapoz magazine circa 1994: interesting. Juxtapoz today: a yawner. That’s just how I feel after having seen what students want to produce. And not a small amount of my experience comes from being an artist who at one time grappled with the same issues.
I’ll say it again, the real point is that too much un-challenging work in one place is tiresome to someone who sees a lot of art. The social commentary attached to lowbrow is right there in the open and is clear to me: it is infantile- it often represents more of a turning away from reality into fantasy. Of course there are differnt degrees and artists vary, but that seems to be the jist. It’s the visual embodiment of a culture which has embraced a wholesale rejection of adulthood. You’re free to to that too, everybody, but I think that there’s more content in the act of infantilzing the culture than a lot of you folks know. It’s it rather profound? Isn’t it rather troubling? What does it mean for the future? If our adults stay like kids because being old is dumb and boring, then what kind of kids will we have in a few years? When will learning to read be considered uncool and pointless?
I’m afraid that in something labeled Art, (as opposed to fashion) VALUE must mean something more than what will sell. Otherwise Art is compromised, and truth is rendered useless by a social order (and when there are so many practitioners, it becomes the order, not the exception to the prevailing order) which refuses to grow up. It’s an American disease, to be sure, which grows from the exceptionalism of Baby Boomers and the greed of the Me Generation. It’s tied to plastic surgery and an obsession with youth. It’s interrupted by bouts of cynicism (Gen X) but has found a fertile nesting ground among the narcissistic materialism of Gen Y.
It’s a good thing when you see (after some years) what you were doing. Maybe by then there will be an answer to the question of why? Why turn away? Why not grow up? Why not show the younger generation coming up that there’s more to Art than prefabricated marketed illusions of cool?
Amen. Agreed. Affirmative. This is the best explanation of my dislike of this type of work that I could possibly muster up.
Thanks for explaining my point of view better than I ever could have.
There was an Adbusters that came out a couple of editions ago that addressed your last statements.
It’s really advertising that has repackaged and sold cool back to us. It’s been happening for decades but now it seems that cool and fashion have become a reality for some. A lot of folks don’t question what is being sold to them anymore.
Apathy has become the disease that is killing this world. Freewill hasn’t become free anymore. It is sold to us and we have become reprogrammed to believe that there’s no hope. Why care? Why do anything? That our votes don’t count. That change is a dirty word. That thinking is despised. That fitting in and being cool is a necessity as we fill our voids with plastic and petroleum.
I don’t really do much in terms of going to art shows. I did go to that first monster art show though, and my store was a drop off point for the works. It was nice seeing, new and different people as participants - as well and artists who have been contributing to the artistic community for years - all bringing by work. I’m unsure how that fuels apathy…
I’m guessing you feel a sweet sense of success since this post created the most site hits for you in a while though, eh?
In regard to apathy.. What would you rather prefer - feeling like you are making a change, but making none? ..or not feeling like you are making any change, but feeling as if you do?
Byron, that was a safe (and typical) response to Josh’s questions.
Why not answer for yourself? I know your video was created “in good fun” and “to stimulate dialogue” but why let James answer all your questions with his opinions? Why say “what WE’RE talking about.”
So far its James Greene I’m hearing the most logic from, not Byron King. Try to personally compose a response as cohesive, mature, logical and educated as his — rather than saying “amen! thats what I was saying!”
If its “we” talking, do some MORE talking.
THIS is a true dialogue.
As I said before, YOU attacked Squid Dust.
Back your shit up too.
it’s the monster crowd who hasn’t backed their case up in any educated manner yet.
read the whole thread Sean. that wasn’t a safe response at all. I’ve gone pretty in depth explaining my opinion on the matter and now you guys are just sort of beating a dead horse.
there are no winners here man. it’s not a contest. And I didn’t ATTACK anyone. It was a generalized question about a art movement of sorts. One that doesn’t seem to be able to take any criticism.
My opinion was completely expressed in the video post. I don’t feel there are any concepts behind the majority of the work and the fact that you guys can’t back it up that there is by going into the actual concepts is some proof of that.
So it’s not me who needs to back anything up.
And… naming ten artists who you relate to is not backing up your concepts.
- 4 June 2008 at 12:50 am
stephendare said:
@ Stefanie.
I wonder exactly what you are referring to?
Other than actually purchasing local art, (of which like a few others I have a substantial collection) and volunteering my space for several years for shows, charging NO COMMISSION for any sales, I don’t believe that I resemble your sentiment expressed above. Certainly the implied viewpoint has never been mine, although I don’t doubt that people are very willing to project their own perceptions and insecurities so strongly that I apparently neednt be present for them to occur.
I do think its childish to get angry at someone like Byron or JaxCal, simply on the basis that their opinion might not be flattering.
Art simply cannot be one huge round of circle jerking, and unless there is a difference of opinion there isnt much fucking reason to create any art more challenging that watercolor daisies is there?
I think it is a reasonable and expected thing for the commentors on this thread to disagree with the opinions expressed, but certainly not disagree with the right, need, and calling that to actually express them.
As it happens, I disagree with Byron’s opinions on the particular show. I love the Monster Art. Why not?
But people arent taking on Byron’s opinion in this thread, they are taking on Byron as a person simply for expressing the opinion.
Which kind of defeats the whole purpose of creating art, I think.
Thankfully there is a difference of opinions and taste. No one, obviously, can be an arbiter of Absolute Value for all aesthetics. If so, then all outsider artists would be forever destroyed and we would never reinvent the world around us.
Art and criticism are the mother and father of the culture. Without art, criticism is simply vicious, without criticism, art is simply bland and usually meaningless.
Of course there is always the occasional asshole that decrys and insults works that they cant reproduce our of jealousy, spite, malice or just simply because mocking someone is so much cooler than looking eager or helpful.
Does anyone really think that any of those motivations are in operation here?
I for one don’t.
So if Byron doesnt like squid dust’s work, great.
You can’t please everyone all the time.
Not everyone can be the Mayor of Awesometown at the Supercool Rodeo all the time.
Obviously other people feel differently.
Like stefanie (who I don’t believe I have ever met) and her unsolicited remark about me—even though I certainly wasnt a writer, videographer, scripter or artist in the Monster show—, you just have to realize that. People are entitled to think whatever they like.
And thats ok. Most people are pretty decent, I have found over the years, and they just are excited about the prospect of getting into a conversation about something that interests them.
It would be insane to kill that basic thing by making everyone afraid to speak wouldnt it?
Good shit stephendare. The rest of you have such terrible sentence structure, that it’s almost impossible to read.. But I think I know what you are attempting to explain.
Byron, Im not sure what you think you need to here in order for any of these readers to “defend” their ideas. Monster art isn’t any different than any other movement or style. It’s just an evolution of people’s interest or an objective interpretation of another style. Art is basically impossible to define. Everyone thinks of it differently. I hate Polluck. I used to hate Warhol. Now I like flat vector, tomorrow I might like your stuff. Who knows… Thats just how shit works.
For all of you wonderful cats who keep checking this post for more back and forth, there’s a new Art Coverage edition. Check it out. I introduce myself a little bit better with a fashion shoot.
Lifter, you still have not defended your work with a point blank statement about why you do it. Art may be impossible to define but why you do it shouldn’t be. That’s the apathy I continue to speak of. Just saying I do it because it’s cool, and it’s a style doesn’t work for me.
I don’t understand why artists can hide behind cool and style and fashion as a reason to be making art. Why are you making the work? It shouldn’t be that hard to answer. I do it because…. It makes me feel…. I believe …. Those are great ways to start an artist statement.
I think we all should define what we believe in yearly or quarterly. Especially artists. If you aren’t then it’s really hard for some folks to take your art seriously.
- 4 June 2008 at 1:14 pm
kevin lewis said:
conscious meaningfulness in “art” is, to me, the antithesis of “art”. the world and life is affected and influenced by outside unseen forces. the unconscious doesn’t need to be explainable to be beautiful. to me, trying to explain would just detract. consciously “saying something” or “making a point” especially politically (ugh) or what we deem “cultural”ly is unneeded at this point. in my belief system, “monster art” is a manifestation of what hindu cosmology termed the “kali yuga”. this especially makes sense of the popularity of cthulu-type characters.
- 4 June 2008 at 7:58 pm
kurt polkey said:
Hinduism generally considers morality to be comparable to a bull known as Dharma. In Satya Yuga, the first stage of development, the bull had four legs, and in each age morality is reduced by a quarter. By the age of Kali, morality will be reduced to only a quarter of that of the golden age. Thus, the bull will only have one leg: morality will wait on men.
Cthulhu is a giant being, one of the Great Old Ones in H.P. Lovecraft’s Cthulhu Mythos.[1] It is often cited for the extreme descriptions given of its appearance, size, and the abject terror that it invokes. Because of this reputation, Cthulhu is often referred to in science fiction and fantasy circles as a tongue-in-cheek shorthand for extreme horror or evil
I think that explains it all.
- 4 June 2008 at 8:15 pm
kevin lewis said:
yes, that explains the total reductionist viewpoint of those who might find deer heads on soldiers bodies to be of utmost interest, anyways. i, myself, would see it as some unconscious commentary on the “kali yuga”, neo-shamans with guns instead of plants forcing the butterfly from the cocoon in the most heartless way. all war is necessary. order out of chaos and all that rot. the antlers drive it all home. i appreciate you disregarding the part of my post before “in my belief system”. i understand it’s easier to reduce something you don’t understand with internet-found brevity so as to make it meaningless. it’s comfortable that way. robert anton wilson always abbreviated belief system as “BS”. i fully back this. i know i am full of shit and i enjoy taking them all over the place. you, however, required use of a machine just to produce that little turd.
Kevin I appreciate you giving my last years project http://www.trophysoldiers.com some thought. I enjoyed your take on it. It does have an about page you can read here, if you’d like to read the concept behind the project.
As for belief systems…
when the polar icecaps melt, and we are all scrambling for that little speck of grass left at the top of any mountaintop, people like you can explain to our children why belief systems are pointless.
I believe there are no atheist in a foxhole. I believe that to the fullest as I’ve never seen as many people at church on Sunday as I did when in basic training during a time of war, and I’m not “religious”.
I believe when gas becomes 12 dollars a gallon, and someone foolishly drops another nuclear bomb all of the monster artists will begin to find their belief systems very quickly. And the only BS will be that coming out of our overpriced poisoned cattle if there are any left.
I think my urgency to believe in something and to have others too also (the belief that they can change the world through their art) is because I have two children and I want them to live full and healthy lives.
I also believe that these are not times to be taken lightly. This I believe.
[...] the (squid) dust has settled, I would like to reflect on a few enlightening aspects of the previous kerfuffle. In former incarnations, I had been witness to various disputes among dancers, poets, and [...]
“When will monster art die?”
It doesn’t really matter, it’ll die only to be resurrected as a slobbering, brainless art zombie.
I’ve always been a big fan of monsters, so naturally I’m digging monster art. But seriously, it’s no new phenomenon. Monsters have been popular in art and media pretty much non-stop since the 60’s. Sure, they were popular before then with Nosferatu, and the Universal monster flicks, but it wasn’t until the 60’s that you saw monsters starring in sitcoms and adorning lunchboxes. At its beginnings of being a staple of American pop culture, it started as escapism, to alleviate cold war tensions although many of the films of that time revolved around nuclear warfare or atomic-generated super-beings, humanity always fought the monster and won. But now, a half-century later, it’s become something more than that, it’s become nostalgic, campy, and fun. I love monsters for their pure aesthetics. They can be as scary, as silly, as over-grown, as decomposed as you’d like. They can be anything, and there’s no wrong way to make a monster.
I’m not a big fan of landscapes, but I’m not going to make a video blog about it. Why should I spearhead a movement against something that many other people enjoy just because I don’t like it? I’m sure the monster fad will die off soon enough, as all fads do, but it’ll never totally die because there will still be people like me who love monsters, not because they’re “in,” but because they’re fun, and will continue to create them just for that reason.
- 9 June 2008 at 7:27 pm
Globatron said:
Maybe you should make a video blog about why you don’t like landscape art Eric. That would be fun and I’d get a laugh out of it I bet. And really man I don’t see this as a movement being spearheaded but I thank you for thinking so.
You can have you monster art. There is no movement or bill being passed to make it illegal. There is no reason to not love what you do and what you believe in.
The real question for me with this whole discussion that was brought up by Kevin Lewis is what is your belief system. If you are making art be aware of what you are doing. It adds to our cultural fabric by doing so. If you don’t know why you are doing it admit it. Say I don’t know. Ask questions?
This discussion can continue if you’d like as Mr. Creegan posted more on the subject here.
I do it because its one part of a spectrum of shit I believe in. i.e. I like sci/fi movies, kung fu, jazz, comic books, cartoons, death metal, venetian snares, dark skinned women etc.. and I let it influence me in a way that creates “artwork” that looks like “monster art” to certain people.
Another explanation is: I like all of this shit and this is one of the ways the great capitalist system allows me to make a living off of doing shit that makes me feel good.
I dont think that people do it cause its cool or makes them feel like they are 7 again. I think its a genuine step towards doing something because there doesn’t need to be an explanation and is totally natural or organic. What led this to, more or less, look like “monster art?” I think that this came about because its unconventional and new in way. “I say fuck paintings of scenic landscapes and fuck Picasso. I want to do something that makes no sense and has no historical relevance.” And maybe, fuck your art teacher who told you that proportion was wrong and it should have more realistic features..
Overall, the reason I make the shit I do has no purpose other than experimentation. To try shit new and ambitious on my own behalf is what excites me the most. Sometimes, I even do it just to see if I can make mine better than the other persons. My influence comes from all of those places I had mentioned prior.
I think it’s hilarious how you try to make this some big argument. I bet that a lot of people are thinkin, “is this guy just an ignorant red neck with a ski mask, or does he have any evidence to back up his own remarks???”
Thanks for proving my point Lifter and not even knowing it.
- 11 June 2008 at 11:38 am
CYPHERTRON! said:
i realy dont care for monster art, i think its perverted vulgur transparent. ignorance is cute when you are a child. and i feel like this kitch expression almost has a “cute” qaulity, its NOT ART. its novelty. there is nothing “mind blowing” about it. It has no “deeper meaning” or reflection on culture or pop culture. great for an entertaining childrens book, and nerds. ZOmbie nerds. production of scary movies is ghreat, and you got your zombie nerds.but give me a break. its mind controll. cant get into it. you are the zombie you project. i think art is a reflection of who you are and the messeges you recieve and reflection on the things you obsorbe in the univers. and if your obsorbing MONSTERS!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!its not origanal, and its realy just a nerd novelty. Give me some heavy real art!!!! your not gett’n paid when you paint what you want, and you are when your gett’n pai d your paint’n for them. and its usualy dumb. so get real! i just put alot of thought into my art, and i appriciate others who do. but mindless art, realy doesnt strike me as art.
[...] King…The Monster show will go on and there will be more meaningless monster art than any one crazy ski mask wearing “Haterade” art critic could stand! And by the way, If my voice sounded like Mr Rogers mixed with a child molester, I wouldn’t [...]
Check out http://www.myspace.com/jerrodbrown for all your Monster Needs. A true Monster artist living right here in Jacksonville. Perhaps Byron King (and Folio) should pay him a visit at Scream Fest 2008. Now that’s a guy they need to do an article about. C’mon Byron, sign up to be on his Myspace friends list.
[...] As you all know Globatron isn’t into art about Monsters as I revealed in my first post, here. I find the work generally shallow and lacking content. I believe the kitschy campyness of it [...]
31 May 2008
66 Comments
HAWHAHWHAW! Classic! Good show Byron! I love it. I half thought you’d be holding a scimitar and the camera would pan back to reveal a Monster Artist kneeling in front of you and then THWOP! Off with it.
This is good because you know my feelings about stylish cute monster doodles. But of course now I have to do some monsters of my own. But they sure as frig won’t be cute. And folio can suck it. They’re trying to sell ads after all. Problematic art (like accurate news reporting) just don’t sell.
Love it.
i am glad you went through with it the new mr. terrorist rogers has been born. long live the art critic…
glad you enjoyed the first installment. i think the mask gives it legs. not sure where I can go with it but it allows me to talk openly about things i can’t without the mask for some reason. maybe I’ll push the Mr. Rogers bit. Didn’t want to push the terrorist mask bit too much as that scares the shit out of me. i find the black mask to be interesting in general in our culture. when you see someone with a black mask on they usually aren’t there to have a good time.
There’s monster art under my bed.
You need a cardigan (to hide your yakuza tattoos, obviously)–that would complete the Mr. Rogers image, I think. Do you think you’ll get any replies?
I hope so Kelly.
I like the cardigan idea. and the visuals of the yakuza tattoos is a hoot.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with “Monster Art” as you call it. Many people are seeking outside outlets and sources for art and decorations. If everyone in Jacksonville painted f*ing palm trees and beaches, we would live in a very depraved city. Insted of bashing the people who are trying to think out of the box, perhaps you should bash the people who keep thinking in.
Also, why does every single piece of art have to have motivation behind it? Most artist create art just to create… not write a thesis on every single piece. I could say much more about this subject but I don’t know you personally nor know your reason for thinking you are the top dog concerning Jacksonville’s art scene (sounds like we have another Stephen Dare on our hands.. God help us). I do know, however, I have never personally seen you or your art in any of the art walks or galleries…. And I just viewed your site, and forgive me, but your art looks pretty “Monsterish” as well. Perhaps you should update your portfolio a bit more before bashing other people’s work, no matter how crazy or zany it may seem. Some of us don’t like to conform to beachside tourist standards.
I’d like everyone to consider the source of this comment.
http://www.colormanifestation.com/
I will say one thing Color Manifestation… My last two projects have been directly related to commenting on monster art and what it means to society.
thanks for the input though. monster art is not thinking out of any box my friend. it’s just a new box.
Someone on their soap box. How cute.
Stefanie makes some good points. There isn’t anything wrong with monster art; it is an expression of what people want to do. If you want to make art about nonviolence and corrupt America, go ahead. But keep this in mind: When you say monster art is an aphathic cancer hanging on our walls, then it’s just as likely that “art with meaning” will be overblown, not subtle, and over the top. That if we are ‘judging’ here, then the art you want to create will not be so different than monster art as it will be cheap and largely scoffed.
How about this; instead of wasting people’s time wearing a mask and lamenting the fall of good art, you go out and meet some artists. It takes some balls to call other people’s work shit and it’s for certain to write them off as pointless. Is all monster art pointless? I don’t know. Is painting squares on a canvas pointless? A huge black canvas pointless? A toilet in an art museum? I don’t know. Why don’t you get off your soap box and find out… for each and every monster artist out there. If anything, we don’t need anymore hiding masks or sweeping generalizations.
IF YOU LIKE “MONSTERART” WITH A REAL MESSAGE THAT MIGHT GO OVER THE HEAD OF THE SOFT SPOKEN SOUTHERN GENTLEMAN W/ THE MASK ON….. CHECK OUT THE 2 GUYS THAT DO IT BEST @ COMICS AND CLASSICS IN JAX BEACH ON THE 7TH OF JUNE FROM 7-9PM!
THE GUEST W/ THE BEST MASK GETS TO HAVE THEIR PICTURE TAKEN W/ THE ARTISTS!!!!
HUGS!
MYSPACE.COM/EDBOARTSHOW
well guys. the new series Art Coverage is here to stay so you can look forward to more sweeping generalizations. and the guy in the mask, jeez. just good old fashion fun. lighten up a bit.
I declare a new form of art. Palm tree monsters. Monsters made out of palm trees. Florida beach scenes with monsters hiding in the sand dunes. Robotic seagulls with horns and antlers. Yes… It will be a huge hit. Mark my words. When is the first show?
I’d like to throw a few opinions into the mix here.
Regarding Byron, having read JaxCal since the time of the Portent show, he seems to be someone sincerely and passionately searching for honest dialog. I have never heard him become indignant at harsh criticisms of his own work - he seems to be begging for it if anything. Although the criticisms only seem to manifest as a reaction to his own words.
There seems to be a “judge not lest ye be judged” message in the comments here. I would think Byron is saying yes, please judge, let’s actually talk about it.
Regarding “monster art” (there may be a more accurate descriptor), I think it would not be intellectually dishonest to first recognize it as a real scene, movement, trend, or even gestalt (for better or for worse). When pressed, I’ve seen artists claiming absolute individual expression which seems a bit far fetched. The hallmarks are pretty obvious, flat colors, thick outlines, a specific subset of iconography (it can’t be a coincidence that we’ve seen many artists, even locally, using one-up mushrooms and skulls). I’m tempted to post a list of websites to express the actual breadth, depth, and long history of this type of work. Succinctly, if you’ve been following art in the last 15 years, you’ve seen it.
Please understand that my comment is not disparaging the movement and I certainly recognize luminaries that I would consider to be part of it, like “Crayola one” and Jeff Soto. I am however defending the critical analysis of it (and by extension, any work).
Ben, right on. I’m all for people judging or even hating my work. All for it. I hope you hate my work and not feel apathetic about it.
More than anything I’m for JaxCAL being a place where we can talk openly about art forms of all types.
Having been involved in the “monster art”, low brow scene myself if not only by association I found the majority of low brow artists not ready or willing, or capable of talking about the concepts behind their work.
That to me is very disappointing and a bit depressing since I know our generation has so many worldy problems to solve in our lifetimes and the lifetimes of our children. It’s sort of if we don’t fix it now it will be broken forever. And to see a generation of artists seemingly stuck in apathetic illustration of monsters without even understanding why they are drawing monsters is disheartening.
So yeah, let’s talk about it. I mean maybe all of these “monster artists” have some really deep concepts and just don’t know how to talk about them. Maybe there’s a reason that a large majority of the younger artists have decided to follow this art form other than I like to skate board, do graffiti, and read comic books. It seems that is the textbook answer that all low brow artists fall back on.
There has to be a reason that such a large group of artists has decided to stick to this art form. Often times humanity works mysteriously through a collective unconscious. Sometimes decisions are being made for the group on that subconscious level and not until years later, decades even, will we know why this type of art is being made.
so yeah. you can hate on me. fine. but let’s talk about it and try to understand it.
What is “Monster Art”? I need some examples.
I’ll pose a question (or two) to monster artists:
Do you think that the monsters, following Byron’s comment about unconscious collective motives, are manifestations of what is within, or what is without? That is, is the monster a representation of some unseen part of yourself, or is the monster the avatar of something in the outer environment?
Why make these monsters? Are they characters that appear in your psyches that, like fictional characters, must be put onto paper (or what have you) for you to have peace? Are there stories behind these characters?
Stefanie, most artists I know don’t create just to create. That’s masturbation. We might as well fall back into DaDa-ist art if we don’t want to create art with meaning. Creating just to create is a waste of time and energy. And in the face of apocalyptic troubles–the environment, the economy, the seeming inevitability of war–who wants to waste time? People who are content with this world the way it is, that’s who. Those who aren’t content make art with motive. Creating something with motive, even if it is simply exploratory or experimental, is vindicating. It gives purpose to one’s efforts. The meaning behind it is the reason it should exist. If there is no reason for something to exist, to be seen and experienced, it may as well not.
This is an underlying point of the argument against monster art.
hey byron whats up with the hate? My name is Clay Doran, though you probably would know me as squid dust. I appreciate you reading my article. However, I feel like you are pretty misled with the whole monster art critique. there are 1000 questions I could ask you about your concept of valuable art. But I’ll trim it down a little bit.
First of all, Do you feel that art is only pure if it is a comment on society? Do feel like artist such as DuChamp, Darger, Basquiat or even Rothko and Pollock are cheapening art history with their loose interpretations of Art? Do the twisted monsters of Bosch, Murakami, and Steadman not qualify as true “art”? What about the wonderful worlds created by edward Gorey, Richard Scarry, and Maurice Sendak? Do they not qualify under your “this is art guidelines”?
In an art scene where barry mcgee, michael sieben, Pushead, and Neckface, are selling out in every gallery they touch…i think you are starting your I HATE MONSTER ART speech a little late.
Sadly art has always had its haters. People probably wouldve made cute videos of how the impressionists ruined painting, or how non religious art should be burned… sadly webcams and ski masks were not readily available back then. Even Adolf Hitler held the first exhibition of “outsider art” to laugh at the pieces he thought “didnt qualify” So yes its nothing new for artists to create a negative buzz around art they dont embrace.
Maybe instead of bashing fellow artists in the community, you could understand that art isnt about a skill level, a message, or a medium… Art is many things. Almost impossible to define…but i dont think byron has figured it out. I dont think that little ole byron king in jacksonville florida has the right to tell anyone that what they create is not valid…..
If you still feel that all monster artists are shallow and apathetic you may like my abstract paintings at http://www.claydoran.com. Im having an opening in riverside june 21st. Maybe you could stop in and tell me how my fine art portfolio is worthless or how my influences bastardized your precious “fine art” with their lack of respect to your “art rules”.
If you still need help I can clear up exactly why I make monsters (and abstact paintings), who my art historical references are, and why your childish “hatin’” means nothing to me or this art scene. If you plan on being the wedge that pulls apart jacksonville art scene….good luck…but im not going to sit back and watch.
cheer up!,
ClayDoran
aka
squid dust
p.s. the mask is cute but Ive been in the around jacksonville for a little while and I know what you look like. Ill make sure to answer every last question you have next time i see you in person.
first of all Clay. i hope you know what I look like because I have a video of myself on my home page, byronking.com.
if you want to talk about your work that’s fine but don’t come on this site and threaten me. i hope you weren’t. i’d really appreciate that.
here’s a question for you. if you want to have real dialogue and not make threats answer this. Why are you an artist?
What’s behind your monster art? The concepts? yes, I’d love you to talk about that. Enlighten us as the article didn’t have any of that in it.
Just checked out your abstract paintings and they are rather nice to look at. What do you want the viewer to get from them? They seem decorative. Is that conscious? I’m interested in how you make the abstract work and the monster art. Do you work on the series consecutively?
I like the wedge comment. If a wedge causes real truthful diaologue about art and the world then I’m all for that.
it has been a while since real dialogue has happened here and it comes from where all the so calleds are making a stink over themselves and why or why not they make objects. i agree with bk for creating this character this tired scene needs some refreshing far too long have the shit artists and writers been taken serious. The decline of values at the bottom of a pit we have built over this last decade is reason enough not to like what you make, there is no content that i have seen in the scene of monsters that has any relevance other than a tim burton esque ripoff of the nightmare before christmas. childrens imagination has more to offer and we all are leaving them a ruined planet art has a purpose and should move to change the status quo.
are you kidding? of course i was not threatening you…i was inviting you to talk to me in person…you know, instead of arguing on the Internet. since we all know that would be ridiculous.
cool. good to know. this is all for good fun man. the video was done in a comedic tone. the mask and the character was used to help me ask some questions and maybe get some answers I couldn’t ask without it. i’m definitely not trying to hide my identity.
i’d love to know more about your work. i’ll be at the Bogda show this Saturday. Maybe we could do a video interview. that would be a great follow up to this I think. hope you are down for it.
i think as long as we are open and honest and keep pushing ourselves as an artistic community there’s nothing we can’t do. we can’t be scared to speak our minds. if somoene doesn’t like something then say you don’t like it. but then say why? then try and get some answers. learn a little bit about the artist and yourself. that’s my take on it.
art is a conversation. if we don’t have these conversations then we won’t be evolving as an artistic community I think. not nearly as quickly as I think we all want it to evolve.
seems like a good “critic” may have actually tried to learn a little bit about the artist he’s singling out, perhaps by trying to pose these types of questions personally, before presenting judgment in a manner that definitely comes across as condescending and hostile, regardless of whatever “tone” that was intended.
your methods towards encouraging growth in our artistic community leave a lot to be desired. it seems that the energy you gathered from your negative emotions towards this type of art and then expended on creating a silly video for the internet could have been better spent developing and advancing your own artist endeavors, rather than worrying about what everyone else is doing.
everyone has a right to their opinion. hope to see more positive contributions towards artists in the community from you soon.
I think an elephant in this room not being talked about is this- I’m pretty sure everyone agrees that art just for fun is cool if not necessary for creative lubrication, but a scene loaded down with folks just seemingly having fun and shits and giggles is just as tiresome as any other scene devoid of honest critique and dialog. I don’t think there’s anyone among us who feels that all art should only be smartypants art all about concepts and earth-shattering issues. The real trick, everybody, is doing something that has weight AND is accessible enough not to alienate the public. It’s called balance. I think that’s what Byron’s (HEY IT’S HUMOROUS!) masked critique is about. Balance it out. Define what the monster is. Think about what you’re doing beyond the cool factor. Shit, you’ll all be doing it once you get a little age on ya. Am I right?
[...] http://www. jaxcal. org/uncategorized/art-coverage-1 [...]
SNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE
byron king and all his cronies make me want to diiiiiiiiiiiie every time someone says “omg, did you read what byron said today???”
wait, did i just say cronies?
ah sheesh.
congrats, cronies!
byron loves you.
someone please paint me dying, call it a monster, and hang it in a fucking gallery.
i thought you were giving up on this blog months ago?
surely you have something better to do than open up your skewed “dialogue” or whatever you want to call it.
go on, list all your projects and how awesome shmawesome you are and how you DO indeed have something better to do.
if its humor youre going for, be fucking hilarious.
if its dialogue you want, stop being stupid.
no, i’m not attacking you.
that’s an objective statement.
you’re being stupid.
you’re making poor choices that are leading you further down a road you REALLY don’t want to be down.
someone compared you to stephen dare already!
ewwwww!
monsters are funny.
dan may paints monsters.
you love dan may!
wait wait wait!
i got it.
squid dust’s monsters are a statement on the war. how the imagery from the war has desensitized the artist sjkawh genkelj toyjgmm…oh shit, sorry i’m falling asleep again.
concepts shmomcepts.
dialogue shmialogue.
please byron.
stop.
for real this time.
Bottom line. It not the questions being asked…its how Byron asks the question. Its totaly negative and so was the video. Why couldnt you have just sent Clay a message and asked him about his work just like ya could have done when we had out last conversation about my work. Your video is really negative and just pisses people off…not creating a dialogue about anything except frustration. I really didnt wanna even post up on this but, i had a couple people tell me about this thing and i just cant help it now. One comment you made, and have made before really sticks with me. You said that there are really talented artist out there but we are not tackling real issues…were just painting monsters with no real meanning behind it all. You mentioned global warming,poverty, famine, the war, all things we should try and involve in our work in some way. Try to take on the big issues and do whatever. I remember not to long ago Logan Zawacki came to JaxCal looking for some artists to get involved with his charity he was doing for cancer research. All he asked of ALL of us was a donated piece of art work. I was really suprised to find out that me, Logan, and his friend david were the only people to donate anything. You would think that a dude with a bunch of trophy soldiers could have donated something…anything..to help out a good cause. I mean its not the war or famine but, hell…it was a way to use art as a method to help a person in need. Logan set a goal of just 1,000. With the three of us and some help from a charity race Logan was able to raise 2,000 and had only two other artists participate in his cause. Has anyones work here in Jacksonville taken on any major issues…have you Byron? Have you really spread the word about whatever cause your fighting for? Ya got to have your work in the publics eye to do that…you got to get out there and get into shows, gallerys, whatever. Its a lot easier to sit back and critique what other do. I have painted my “apathetic” work for a while now and have been involved in a ton of charities that have helped people in need. Lets see…Byron has drawn characters to express his feelings about the war and just recently exxon…over the past several years…..Thats it. Thats all. Wait to go…geez, i really feel like ive been slacking over the past year since ive been painting for the public. Who has seen your work? Anyone been changed or some how effected by it? Is that the goal of every artist now? I try my best to help wherever i can with my art work. I hope everyone does but, do i need to paint something that somehow comments about the war or exxon spills to be a good artist now? What the hell is art to Byron? Really…what is art to you? What would make a good art scene here in Jacksonville??? What is a good art scene??? Where is this great art scene you long for? What would it be like?? Who deserves to shape Jacksonvilles art scene? I have the answer. Us. The monster artists, surreal artists, abstracts,graffiti,urban art,and the lowbrow artists. It funny to see how people can say whatever they want but, we are the ones busting our asses, doing shows, and making things happen. One thing i noticed durring last Art Walk..which im sure makes everyone skin crawl…is that a lot of people came out to say hi to me and ed dansart at the art center. One thing i thought was interesting is that the people who come out to see me all the time have been bringing more and more friends. I have noticed that more and more work from some of the fine artists and landscape art has now been selling. The images some of us paint really draws in a crowd to see what were doing. Now i can see a trend that not only is the public comming by to see what I got cooking but, they are really starting to take interest in the other art work thats available. The monster art work is like a gateway drug. People see it, theres not major concepts in some of it, its easy on the eyes, makes people smile, and then they start to look at the other paingings. The fine art…the landscapes…and they start to appreciate the skill it takes in that type of work as well as instalations, music experimentation, and all forms of art. Its very easy to fall in love with a monster painting..there fun, affordable, and people dig it. I believe it truly is an introduction to the arts for a lot of the younger crowd out there who is just now taking an apreciation in the arts. Eventually they will get older and will not want a alien taking over a local barber shop hanging on there wall when there 60. They will want the more expensive work…the landscapes…the palm trees…the beach. I do agree with what valuistics had to say…it is about balance but,When is monster art gonna die? LOL…oh man.
ok,i was at the last joe van Dyke art show on sat and i must say there was not much monster art to speak of i mean ed and clay and a few others which ok fine byron don’t like monster art……..but what i heard is that your stuff hasn’t gotten much hype so your angry at clay shame one you Byron king i don’t know you but I’m a collector of art of all kinds
there is something you should know sometimes monsters take human form and those are the ones you should look out for.issues…indeed you have issues.think before you do something like this again.
the monster crowd is really just showing it’s maturity here or lack there of. i’m going to turn off comments on this post as it’s just getting ridiculous now. glad you all were able to let off a little steam. this just shows that the majority of you all can’t have an intelligent conversation about your art. that’s the bottom line really. if you could that’s what this post was for and this was a perfect chance for you all to do so. instead you did what you did. congratulations. hope you feel better.
i originally turned off comments on this post. I’m turning them back on and for the first time in jaxcal history I am going to moderate hateful hurtful comments off this site. if you want to have dialogue about your art fine, but don’t come on here spewing hatred. i recommend reading all the comments on here too before commenting as you will see this isn’t a site for hateful commentary and this is all in good fun. i feel maybe there is a little more insight we can all get from a good dialogue on this subject matter.
and really anyone who got upset over this post, please lighten up a little bit. Valuistics had some great input just now too. Thanks for that.
out of all the art blogs in jville jaxcal has conversation and the surfers drop by for the content, i visit the other blogs most are lacking.
well well well you opened Pandora’s box you really can’t be to surprised what people think and say considering how intellectually incapable the jax art scean is in your opinion, you wanted dialog well this is what I’m doing here so i have a question? for Byron king
1.are you jealous of clay doran?
2.are you not a fan of free speech?
3.how many accolades has your work received in the last 5 calender years?
I’m not here to spew hate speech just a guy with a few questions
This post wasn’t meant to be about me. It questions the concepts behind the monster art movement in general.
That’s what I was addressing. The concepts. I’d love folks to talk about that. And I’m not jealous of anyone.
My web site has all of my latest news outlined, http://www.byronking.com/art/news
and my artist resume is here:
http://byronking.com/art/about
I’m not doing too bad I don’t think. but you judge. you tell me if I’m cool enough to have an opinion about monster art.
I was in the Army three months after 911 doing great work for our country cleaning toilets so your five years question doesn’t apply to me unless you want to see my military ribbons and you count those. I think I still have them.
of course I believe in free speech. that’s exactly why I posted this and post almost every day on jaxcal.
you don’t agree with me. that’s fine. i get it. i think the concepts of that movement could be raised a few notches. I’m tired of seeing cartoons of monsters that have no symbolism or connection to our world that is going down the tubes.
i want drastic change. I want everyone involved in pushing the buttons, stirring the pot and questioning the status quo. Is that possible? I hope so.
I read all the comments… here’s my opinion: it’s not art when you make it, it takes other people to argue whether or not it’s ART. By voicing your criticism you have validated something you wanted to dismiss. these monster images bring out the monsters and protectors in all the people who have commented on here and despite the fact that you don’t like the imagery because you can’t see the concept behind it, you have unwittingly become a champion of its worth.
painting monsters is fun.
Clay should thank you, you should look into the camera, I should shut up and go make something… maybe lunch.
takereasy.
shazam. very wise indeed. I agree 100 percent. We might not know what these monsters mean to our society for years and years to come.
I believe there has to be something deeper to this and that they are a part of our collective unconscious.
you know what i want?
i want to see a skull zombie that’s vomiting snakes.
just sayin.
to me, “monster art” as you’ve dubbed it is not a drastic change or a reaction to the status quo that stirs the pot, but it is a distraction.
we all need a distraction.
byron king needs a distraction.
please heed your own advice and carefully re-read clay’s initial comment to your attack. note the artists he cites…understand his point of view. i think you will find the answers you so diligently seek through this brilliant “dialogue” you’ve begun.
what you did was attack an artist who is producing work and being talked about in a positive light. you may not like it, and i think thats fine, but presenting your opinion in the manner you did on this site — a (mostly) public forum — opens you up for all the reactions you got (and that you deserve). these are not attacks…they are not sippin the haterade, mr king…they are reactions. reactions to your overarching, generalized, and mostly under-educated opinion(s).
please get off your high horse, take off the ski mask (even though it is oh so funny), and look at the pretty picture for what it is: a zombie head vomiting snakes.
there’s your social commentary.
there’s your stirring the pot.
there’s your questioning byron king’s status quo.
you’re so right bro.
Beavis and Butthead bro. brilliant.
that’s all we need… the world needs action and thinkers not folks sniffing glue and drawing zombie cartoons.
you all have some good points but I’m apt to agree with the world needing less monster art and more action.
thing is it takes braincells to think. conceptual art is harder to make than drawing funny laughable sidekick hipster cool kid illustrations.
Not a single peice from this collection of work resembles any other piece in this list or elsewhare.
There are no overarching themes or motifs. Every single piece is completely new and revolutionary.
To find similarity in any of this type of work, or to refer to it by a generalized term would be the heinous act of an uneducated “hater”.
To ask WHY it all shares similar themes will be considered tactless and aggressive.
heikomueller
lifterbaron
stickathing.
tado
pokedstudio
mkt4
Charakterzz
monster-munch
………..
formatbrain
Monsters in My Pocket
Carlos Lerma
Let’s be honest, this stuff isn’t brewing in a vacuum in Jax. If you’re doing this kind of work, own it. If you don’t like the term “monster art” give us a new term.
I’m also kinda shocked by all the indignation at having your work questioned and criticized.
My work has been sneered at and flat out dismissed many times and I think alot of it has helped me break out of my limited mindset and grow.
Frankly, I would be joyous if people cared this much about the stuff I do.
And lest I be branded a cronie, I should say that I have never even met Byron nor do I agree with his notions of art. In fact I strongly disagree with alot of them, but that’s irrelevent.
“O! beware, my lord, of jealousy; It is the green-eyed monster which doth mock the meat it feeds on”
–Shakespeare
Allan:
Well put, bra.
I still believe anything goes as long as it can be backed up. Just like all this talk, art needs to be backed up with something, anything. So far I have not heard the monster artists weighing in here actually back up their work with anything besides “hey it’s a free country.” Which may be enough… for now.
But there needs to be more… As part of their audience, I say there needs to be more. Because once the fad passes, there will be the hard core who survive and the weak sauce who fall by the by & by. I think the crux of the biscuit here isn’t how history remembers cute/evil monster styles, but that we (Byron in particular) are sick of seeing it again and again.
Many seem to be acting like their work needs no backing up because it is cool and may actually sell and with that they have the opportunity to pad their resume by doing a charity show or two. I say just give what cash you can to the charity and keep your art real.
I say that they are in a place at the moment where the tide has turned in their direction and everything looks peachy keen for their cute work. That’s exactly when you ought to be suspicious, when things look too good… I’ve been around enough to know that once you’ve been picked up as a flavor d’jour you need to check yourself. Doesn’t mean you should stop doing monsters or stop doing what you’re doing, it just means you need to start backing it up with common sense ideas besides ‘it’s cool’ and ‘I’m doing it cuz I can so fuck all y’all.’ Show your audience that you are a relevant artist and not a here-today cool stylist. Otherwise your work will follow when the STYLE crashes in coolness. And it will. Cool is perishable. Solid concepts have a long shelf-life.
Maybe concepts and ideas put you to sleep the way an art history lecture in school might have, but in order to survive time, the majority of you need to go back to school. and pop some No-Doz and listen if you want to bee seen as serious. Otherwise your moment will be short and then you’ll be like the middle aged landscape/seascape painter. Out of ideas and unstylish to boot.
Study your history. Whoever don’t, I pity the fool like Mr. T.
Is there an artists movement I didn’t know about in our city. Is Monster Art the “thing”? Are you guys and gals a new school? Is there a space or website that I can see your work all together?
Also, there isn’t any type of art that walks the line between important and boring as much as political or social art.
well once again Byron its me I’m back your little vid really did stir the pot as it seems here in jax beach everybody’s talking about you and your post oh and hats off to you for serving our country during a time of need…….but that don’t give you free rain to say and do whatever you like now this is your site and i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings but think how you made some of the “monster artist” feel in Jacksonville i wasn’t tiring to belittle you i was defending this local art scene with my long teeth and claws lol by-the-way post another vid but this time loose the mask you don’t need it your a man.everyone knows who you are any hooo.
aren’t you same person who asked me if I believe in freedom of speech?
of course I can say and do whatever I want regardless of me having served my country. But thanks for the respect on that.
It’s a free country my friend. Lot’s of people have died so people like me can post silly little videos like this one.
the whole point of the video anyway was to get people to think and have a conversation about the work. and again it was all in good fun so please folks chill out.
OK, so first of all no one on this blog has enough experience or clout to talk shit on anyone else for making an attempt at getting paid, being an illustrator or doing what you love.
Second, there isn’t a social commentary in most of this style of work. Thats why its “low-brow” and thats why its art. Long explanations about your art can only go so far. Some of us like to do this shit and thats all it is. Doing something we enjoy and making a living off of it. So there. We all have a different idea of it’s importance or roll in society, and I personally think its solely an expression of creative freedom. Nothing more nothing less.
PS Thanks for the link “A different Ben”
WOW. This whole exchange is one of the most brilliant pieces of performance art I’ve seen.
Byron became a monster to turn the mirror on the monster art. And the monster artists became monsters when confronted with a monster. And on and on. I’m a monster, too! BOO!
I’d like to point out that no one here was shit talking about artists getting paid. We are all in favor of that, I believe, and why wouldn’t we be? Secondly, I don’t feel I personally have more clout that anyone, but I do have experiences I don’t hear being echoed here, and the only perspective I have is one gleaned from my own experience. I have worked in education at the college level for about 5 years and have seen visual art fads come and go. Juxtapoz magazine circa 1994: interesting. Juxtapoz today: a yawner. That’s just how I feel after having seen what students want to produce. And not a small amount of my experience comes from being an artist who at one time grappled with the same issues.
I’ll say it again, the real point is that too much un-challenging work in one place is tiresome to someone who sees a lot of art. The social commentary attached to lowbrow is right there in the open and is clear to me: it is infantile- it often represents more of a turning away from reality into fantasy. Of course there are differnt degrees and artists vary, but that seems to be the jist. It’s the visual embodiment of a culture which has embraced a wholesale rejection of adulthood. You’re free to to that too, everybody, but I think that there’s more content in the act of infantilzing the culture than a lot of you folks know. It’s it rather profound? Isn’t it rather troubling? What does it mean for the future? If our adults stay like kids because being old is dumb and boring, then what kind of kids will we have in a few years? When will learning to read be considered uncool and pointless?
I’m afraid that in something labeled Art, (as opposed to fashion) VALUE must mean something more than what will sell. Otherwise Art is compromised, and truth is rendered useless by a social order (and when there are so many practitioners, it becomes the order, not the exception to the prevailing order) which refuses to grow up. It’s an American disease, to be sure, which grows from the exceptionalism of Baby Boomers and the greed of the Me Generation. It’s tied to plastic surgery and an obsession with youth. It’s interrupted by bouts of cynicism (Gen X) but has found a fertile nesting ground among the narcissistic materialism of Gen Y.
It’s a good thing when you see (after some years) what you were doing. Maybe by then there will be an answer to the question of why? Why turn away? Why not grow up? Why not show the younger generation coming up that there’s more to Art than prefabricated marketed illusions of cool?
Amen. Agreed. Affirmative. This is the best explanation of my dislike of this type of work that I could possibly muster up.
Thanks for explaining my point of view better than I ever could have.
There was an Adbusters that came out a couple of editions ago that addressed your last statements.
It’s really advertising that has repackaged and sold cool back to us. It’s been happening for decades but now it seems that cool and fashion have become a reality for some. A lot of folks don’t question what is being sold to them anymore.
Apathy has become the disease that is killing this world. Freewill hasn’t become free anymore. It is sold to us and we have become reprogrammed to believe that there’s no hope. Why care? Why do anything? That our votes don’t count. That change is a dirty word. That thinking is despised. That fitting in and being cool is a necessity as we fill our voids with plastic and petroleum.
Eloquent, James.
I don’t really do much in terms of going to art shows. I did go to that first monster art show though, and my store was a drop off point for the works. It was nice seeing, new and different people as participants - as well and artists who have been contributing to the artistic community for years - all bringing by work. I’m unsure how that fuels apathy…
I’m guessing you feel a sweet sense of success since this post created the most site hits for you in a while though, eh?
In regard to apathy.. What would you rather prefer - feeling like you are making a change, but making none? ..or not feeling like you are making any change, but feeling as if you do?
Josh I’d recommend reading all the comments (especially Valuistics) to understand what we’re talking about. It’s explained in depth.
Byron, that was a safe (and typical) response to Josh’s questions.
Why not answer for yourself? I know your video was created “in good fun” and “to stimulate dialogue” but why let James answer all your questions with his opinions? Why say “what WE’RE talking about.”
So far its James Greene I’m hearing the most logic from, not Byron King. Try to personally compose a response as cohesive, mature, logical and educated as his — rather than saying “amen! thats what I was saying!”
If its “we” talking, do some MORE talking.
THIS is a true dialogue.
As I said before, YOU attacked Squid Dust.
Back your shit up too.
i think our side has been pretty well backed up.
it’s the monster crowd who hasn’t backed their case up in any educated manner yet.
read the whole thread Sean. that wasn’t a safe response at all. I’ve gone pretty in depth explaining my opinion on the matter and now you guys are just sort of beating a dead horse.
there are no winners here man. it’s not a contest. And I didn’t ATTACK anyone. It was a generalized question about a art movement of sorts. One that doesn’t seem to be able to take any criticism.
My opinion was completely expressed in the video post. I don’t feel there are any concepts behind the majority of the work and the fact that you guys can’t back it up that there is by going into the actual concepts is some proof of that.
So it’s not me who needs to back anything up.
And… naming ten artists who you relate to is not backing up your concepts.
@ Stefanie.
I wonder exactly what you are referring to?
Other than actually purchasing local art, (of which like a few others I have a substantial collection) and volunteering my space for several years for shows, charging NO COMMISSION for any sales, I don’t believe that I resemble your sentiment expressed above. Certainly the implied viewpoint has never been mine, although I don’t doubt that people are very willing to project their own perceptions and insecurities so strongly that I apparently neednt be present for them to occur.
I do think its childish to get angry at someone like Byron or JaxCal, simply on the basis that their opinion might not be flattering.
Art simply cannot be one huge round of circle jerking, and unless there is a difference of opinion there isnt much fucking reason to create any art more challenging that watercolor daisies is there?
I think it is a reasonable and expected thing for the commentors on this thread to disagree with the opinions expressed, but certainly not disagree with the right, need, and calling that to actually express them.
As it happens, I disagree with Byron’s opinions on the particular show. I love the Monster Art. Why not?
But people arent taking on Byron’s opinion in this thread, they are taking on Byron as a person simply for expressing the opinion.
Which kind of defeats the whole purpose of creating art, I think.
Thankfully there is a difference of opinions and taste. No one, obviously, can be an arbiter of Absolute Value for all aesthetics. If so, then all outsider artists would be forever destroyed and we would never reinvent the world around us.
Art and criticism are the mother and father of the culture. Without art, criticism is simply vicious, without criticism, art is simply bland and usually meaningless.
Of course there is always the occasional asshole that decrys and insults works that they cant reproduce our of jealousy, spite, malice or just simply because mocking someone is so much cooler than looking eager or helpful.
Does anyone really think that any of those motivations are in operation here?
I for one don’t.
So if Byron doesnt like squid dust’s work, great.
You can’t please everyone all the time.
Not everyone can be the Mayor of Awesometown at the Supercool Rodeo all the time.
Obviously other people feel differently.
Like stefanie (who I don’t believe I have ever met) and her unsolicited remark about me—even though I certainly wasnt a writer, videographer, scripter or artist in the Monster show—, you just have to realize that. People are entitled to think whatever they like.
And thats ok. Most people are pretty decent, I have found over the years, and they just are excited about the prospect of getting into a conversation about something that interests them.
It would be insane to kill that basic thing by making everyone afraid to speak wouldnt it?
Good shit stephendare. The rest of you have such terrible sentence structure, that it’s almost impossible to read.. But I think I know what you are attempting to explain.
Byron, Im not sure what you think you need to here in order for any of these readers to “defend” their ideas. Monster art isn’t any different than any other movement or style. It’s just an evolution of people’s interest or an objective interpretation of another style. Art is basically impossible to define. Everyone thinks of it differently. I hate Polluck. I used to hate Warhol. Now I like flat vector, tomorrow I might like your stuff. Who knows… Thats just how shit works.
For all of you wonderful cats who keep checking this post for more back and forth, there’s a new Art Coverage edition. Check it out. I introduce myself a little bit better with a fashion shoot.
http://www.jaxcal.org/globatron/art-coverage-2
Lifter, you still have not defended your work with a point blank statement about why you do it. Art may be impossible to define but why you do it shouldn’t be. That’s the apathy I continue to speak of. Just saying I do it because it’s cool, and it’s a style doesn’t work for me.
I don’t understand why artists can hide behind cool and style and fashion as a reason to be making art. Why are you making the work? It shouldn’t be that hard to answer. I do it because…. It makes me feel…. I believe …. Those are great ways to start an artist statement.
One of the best series out today on NPR is the This I Believe series where folks write about what they believe in.
Take a listen:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4538138
I think we all should define what we believe in yearly or quarterly. Especially artists. If you aren’t then it’s really hard for some folks to take your art seriously.
conscious meaningfulness in “art” is, to me, the antithesis of “art”. the world and life is affected and influenced by outside unseen forces. the unconscious doesn’t need to be explainable to be beautiful. to me, trying to explain would just detract. consciously “saying something” or “making a point” especially politically (ugh) or what we deem “cultural”ly is unneeded at this point. in my belief system, “monster art” is a manifestation of what hindu cosmology termed the “kali yuga”. this especially makes sense of the popularity of cthulu-type characters.
Hinduism generally considers morality to be comparable to a bull known as Dharma. In Satya Yuga, the first stage of development, the bull had four legs, and in each age morality is reduced by a quarter. By the age of Kali, morality will be reduced to only a quarter of that of the golden age. Thus, the bull will only have one leg: morality will wait on men.
Cthulhu is a giant being, one of the Great Old Ones in H.P. Lovecraft’s Cthulhu Mythos.[1] It is often cited for the extreme descriptions given of its appearance, size, and the abject terror that it invokes. Because of this reputation, Cthulhu is often referred to in science fiction and fantasy circles as a tongue-in-cheek shorthand for extreme horror or evil
I think that explains it all.
yes, that explains the total reductionist viewpoint of those who might find deer heads on soldiers bodies to be of utmost interest, anyways. i, myself, would see it as some unconscious commentary on the “kali yuga”, neo-shamans with guns instead of plants forcing the butterfly from the cocoon in the most heartless way. all war is necessary. order out of chaos and all that rot. the antlers drive it all home. i appreciate you disregarding the part of my post before “in my belief system”. i understand it’s easier to reduce something you don’t understand with internet-found brevity so as to make it meaningless. it’s comfortable that way. robert anton wilson always abbreviated belief system as “BS”. i fully back this. i know i am full of shit and i enjoy taking them all over the place. you, however, required use of a machine just to produce that little turd.
Kevin I appreciate you giving my last years project http://www.trophysoldiers.com some thought. I enjoyed your take on it. It does have an about page you can read here, if you’d like to read the concept behind the project.
As for belief systems…
when the polar icecaps melt, and we are all scrambling for that little speck of grass left at the top of any mountaintop, people like you can explain to our children why belief systems are pointless.
I believe there are no atheist in a foxhole. I believe that to the fullest as I’ve never seen as many people at church on Sunday as I did when in basic training during a time of war, and I’m not “religious”.
I believe when gas becomes 12 dollars a gallon, and someone foolishly drops another nuclear bomb all of the monster artists will begin to find their belief systems very quickly. And the only BS will be that coming out of our overpriced poisoned cattle if there are any left.
I think my urgency to believe in something and to have others too also (the belief that they can change the world through their art) is because I have two children and I want them to live full and healthy lives.
I also believe that these are not times to be taken lightly. This I believe.
[...] the (squid) dust has settled, I would like to reflect on a few enlightening aspects of the previous kerfuffle. In former incarnations, I had been witness to various disputes among dancers, poets, and [...]
“When will monster art die?”
It doesn’t really matter, it’ll die only to be resurrected as a slobbering, brainless art zombie.
I’ve always been a big fan of monsters, so naturally I’m digging monster art. But seriously, it’s no new phenomenon. Monsters have been popular in art and media pretty much non-stop since the 60’s. Sure, they were popular before then with Nosferatu, and the Universal monster flicks, but it wasn’t until the 60’s that you saw monsters starring in sitcoms and adorning lunchboxes. At its beginnings of being a staple of American pop culture, it started as escapism, to alleviate cold war tensions although many of the films of that time revolved around nuclear warfare or atomic-generated super-beings, humanity always fought the monster and won. But now, a half-century later, it’s become something more than that, it’s become nostalgic, campy, and fun. I love monsters for their pure aesthetics. They can be as scary, as silly, as over-grown, as decomposed as you’d like. They can be anything, and there’s no wrong way to make a monster.
I’m not a big fan of landscapes, but I’m not going to make a video blog about it. Why should I spearhead a movement against something that many other people enjoy just because I don’t like it? I’m sure the monster fad will die off soon enough, as all fads do, but it’ll never totally die because there will still be people like me who love monsters, not because they’re “in,” but because they’re fun, and will continue to create them just for that reason.
Maybe you should make a video blog about why you don’t like landscape art Eric. That would be fun and I’d get a laugh out of it I bet. And really man I don’t see this as a movement being spearheaded but I thank you for thinking so.
You can have you monster art. There is no movement or bill being passed to make it illegal. There is no reason to not love what you do and what you believe in.
The real question for me with this whole discussion that was brought up by Kevin Lewis is what is your belief system. If you are making art be aware of what you are doing. It adds to our cultural fabric by doing so. If you don’t know why you are doing it admit it. Say I don’t know. Ask questions?
This discussion can continue if you’d like as Mr. Creegan posted more on the subject here.
http://www.jaxcal.org/uncategorized/c-is-for-crux
If you’d like to add to Mark’s discussion Eric I’d be more than happy to discuss it further on his post.
I do it because its one part of a spectrum of shit I believe in. i.e. I like sci/fi movies, kung fu, jazz, comic books, cartoons, death metal, venetian snares, dark skinned women etc.. and I let it influence me in a way that creates “artwork” that looks like “monster art” to certain people.
Another explanation is: I like all of this shit and this is one of the ways the great capitalist system allows me to make a living off of doing shit that makes me feel good.
I dont think that people do it cause its cool or makes them feel like they are 7 again. I think its a genuine step towards doing something because there doesn’t need to be an explanation and is totally natural or organic. What led this to, more or less, look like “monster art?” I think that this came about because its unconventional and new in way. “I say fuck paintings of scenic landscapes and fuck Picasso. I want to do something that makes no sense and has no historical relevance.” And maybe, fuck your art teacher who told you that proportion was wrong and it should have more realistic features..
Overall, the reason I make the shit I do has no purpose other than experimentation. To try shit new and ambitious on my own behalf is what excites me the most. Sometimes, I even do it just to see if I can make mine better than the other persons. My influence comes from all of those places I had mentioned prior.
I think it’s hilarious how you try to make this some big argument. I bet that a lot of people are thinkin, “is this guy just an ignorant red neck with a ski mask, or does he have any evidence to back up his own remarks???”
PS i like your deer drawings
Thanks for proving my point Lifter and not even knowing it.
i realy dont care for monster art, i think its perverted vulgur transparent. ignorance is cute when you are a child. and i feel like this kitch expression almost has a “cute” qaulity, its NOT ART. its novelty. there is nothing “mind blowing” about it. It has no “deeper meaning” or reflection on culture or pop culture. great for an entertaining childrens book, and nerds. ZOmbie nerds. production of scary movies is ghreat, and you got your zombie nerds.but give me a break. its mind controll. cant get into it. you are the zombie you project. i think art is a reflection of who you are and the messeges you recieve and reflection on the things you obsorbe in the univers. and if your obsorbing MONSTERS!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!its not origanal, and its realy just a nerd novelty. Give me some heavy real art!!!! your not gett’n paid when you paint what you want, and you are when your gett’n pai d your paint’n for them. and its usualy dumb. so get real! i just put alot of thought into my art, and i appriciate others who do. but mindless art, realy doesnt strike me as art.
[...] King…The Monster show will go on and there will be more meaningless monster art than any one crazy ski mask wearing “Haterade” art critic could stand! And by the way, If my voice sounded like Mr Rogers mixed with a child molester, I wouldn’t [...]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-sADII2w30
For those of you hating on ski masks.
Check out http://www.myspace.com/jerrodbrown for all your Monster Needs. A true Monster artist living right here in Jacksonville. Perhaps Byron King (and Folio) should pay him a visit at Scream Fest 2008. Now that’s a guy they need to do an article about. C’mon Byron, sign up to be on his Myspace friends list.
[...] As you all know Globatron isn’t into art about Monsters as I revealed in my first post, here. I find the work generally shallow and lacking content. I believe the kitschy campyness of it [...]
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