The Green Kids
19 July 2008
38 CommentsI’m going to tell you the truth, I’m jealous of the Black Kids. Who wouldn’t be right now. And at the same time, I’m proud of them. I mean who wouldn’t be proud of someone from your hometown who has become incredibly famous in one year. Good on ya mates. Makes me have faith that the same could possibly happen to me. One can dream. But there’s one thing that I’ve tried to figure out and I can’t. Just to clarify maybe I’m just an old man and everything is clouded by the bands I saw when I was just a kid. A very green kid.
I grew up listening to the Cure. I walked the streets of Arles, France while they were playing in a Roman Coliseum at the age of fourteen. was the album, 1989 the year and I remember it vividly. Something like that leaves a mark on an American seeing hundreds of Europeans playing dress up as Robert Smith. Afterwards for years I jammed out to the cure in my high school parking lot while going through puberty. And man was I not cool, but knowing that there was something outside of the definition of “cool” was comforting. There was nothing typical about The Cure. They were emotional and real. They had their thing and they owned it and if you didn’t like it you could not listen to it.
And then there is Jacksonville’s Black Kids which to me is not only not original but a poor imitation of bands from my childhood that helped define me. Bands that comforted me when I was feeling rejected and out of place growing up in the South, growing up in the Bible Belt. Today we celebrated my toddler’s third birthday party. 60 people came and went very quickly out of our house. A couple of times the Black Kids came up in conversation. Funny thing is it seems I’m not the only one who is keeping in the dirty secret that they really just don’t get them. We discussed how we felt that grown men shouldn’t find themselves listening to this music. Not only because it’s not masculine “whatever that means” but that it’s just a poor derivative knock-off of a handful of bands that we should cherish and defend.
Maybe The Black Kids are something the critics in their musical genius have defined as good. Great even. The formula for success it seems is to take several bands and mash them together while selling it as something new. Rad. And on top of that call yourself something like Black Kids? A name that is not only puzzling but should almost be offensive to some especially since none of them are black. I myself will not stand by and approve of the Black Kids. The music not only makes me scratch my head in disbelief in their sudden fame but a bit upset to my stomach. I’m hoping they find themselves along their journey and in the process their music follows with something they can call their own other than a smart band name.
Original:
Derivative:
jealousy is a green monster.
None of them are black? Look again.
I know a similar feeling. I went to school in IA with one Chris Kutcher, (now using a different first name and married to a certain ex of Bruce Willis.) I think the first thing he did (Kelso on that 70’s show) was hands down his finest hour, and never did he find himself creatively on the journey.
continuing: But because I knew him once does it give me license to be extra critical? Is it because I expect too much from a hometown hero? Jealously is a human condition, common to us all. Will whoever has never felt jealous please stand up?
Yeah I wonder how becoming “famous” works. Does the moon and stars have to be in perfect alignment. Not even being famous is my concern but just trying to do something one loves for a living. You know what would be amazing if folks who experience their moment of fame from Jacksonville actually developed some sort of vehicle for other local musicians and artists to be known or at least found out about.
Like it’d be rad if The Black Kids were the creators of JaxCAL Space or something similar and used that as their mantra. Pull others out of the muck with them.
I’m not too sure any of them are black Kelly and I really don’t care that much about that. I don’t think the music works for me. It’s to poppy and derivate of the Cure.
I’m stoked for them though. I think it’s just amazing that all of this can happen so quickly for them and it does give me hope that if we keep banging our heads against the wall someone will notice. Or maybe not. I’m really not going to pretend anything will come out of my art these days other than meeting some interesting people along the way. But one can dream.
Ashton Kutcher got his ass beat up a few weeks ago somewhere. Saw a tabloid pic of him all bloodied up and it made me think about his character on that 70’s show and how he might not have been able to separate that loud mouth character from reality. Is he a decent person James? Do you remember him being so? I hope so and if so, I guess we should all be proud of our local talent going big. Doesn’t mean we have to appreciate their creative work though.
I suppose I remember him as being decent- he has a twin brother who has cerebral palsy and I remember Chris being the kind of kid who would stand up for weaker kids when we (ever so cruel) middle schoolers would pick on them. Still, that was back in the 80’s and early 90’s, so who knows what he’s like now?Hopefully the kabbalah he practices with Demi is helping him grow spiritually. He did go though a rough patch in high school and got busted for breaking and entering, but whatever we all do dumb things when we’re kids. Last time I saw him was in ‘02 at a party he threw in CR. I shook his hand and said I thought he was funny on That 70’s Show (and he was) and I think he remembered me. Seems nice enough still. He has managed to (with the exception of getting beaten up recently) stay out of the tabloids and negative press pieces. And who knows, maybe at age 40-45 he’ll pull a John Travolta and star in an ironical role in a Tarantino flick or something and have an extended encore / second career and star in some non-fluffy roles. He could stand to play an asshole or a villain or date-rapist or something risky instead of playing the same dude in every movie. But whatever. I’m proud of him.
now maybe everyone can’t stop shouting freebird when out of towners come and play their music, the kids are on a roll and the ladder is steep good luck
that’s cool James that he’s a decent person. I could see him having staying power in Hollywood. He does need to land a big role like a Tarantino role though I think. I thought the Butterfly Effect was a good attempt as a serious role.
One thing though is the brother doesn’t have to worry about money the rest of his life. Maybe he will help out some of his old peeps from CR and set up some sort of vehicle to funnel talent into the limelight. If I ever made it big at all I would try to help others out in a similar fashion.
There are so many talented folks who’s talent goes unnoticed. It’s hard for me to be impressed by one of our own when there’s so much more talent in Jacksonville that no one gives a damn about. Musical talent.
Visual Art Talent, Acting, Film making, etc.
Why be so miffed at anything that is derivative? If you draw on something as inspiration, is your work not automatically derivative? Being original is a very hard and rare thing to be.
I don’t believe that at all Kelly. Everyone has something new to add to the human dialogue I believe. Inspiration is just a starting point. You don’t have necessarily have to copy that source of inspiration.
I’m not miffed I just don’t dig it especially when it seems obviously derivative.
I agree Kelly. I dont mind, especially in pop music, noticeable influences. i have only heard this song, but I am sure other influences are to be found in their other songs. I think true originality is impossible, but it is possible to approach it through either a new technology (like in the case of the new Radiohead video) or thru a hybrid of several precursors. In music, I would like to see strange hybrids, like Scott Joplin mixed with punk or Ethel Merman with NIN and Salsa.
Anyways, i like this little ditty, its catchy. The singing cheerleaders reminds me of a Smog song
Whoa…didn’t know the Black Kids were from Jax. I might be in the minority here, but I actually find the sound refreshing in a I’m-glad-its-not-Limp-Bizkit kind of way.
Over the past couple of years the indy/college rock scene has been developing nicely. Out of The Stokes, Interpol, The Killers sound we have seen a development of a Modest Mouse, Franz Ferdinand, Snow Patrol sound. I enjoy listening both genres and thank God that it isn’t rap or the cookie cutter rock that had become so prevalent.
Anyway, I’m just happy a new band is from Jax. I hope they make it big, at least for a couple of years.
– m
considering m4rcus is my flesh and blood older brother who taught me everything I know or dont’ know about music including the Cure I will admit that I might need to take another look at The Black Kids. Thanks for stopping by m4rcus. Remember Arles? Remember the mullets and the Batman shirt I wore out. Which was around when the first Batman came out actually.
Those were the days.
Just saw the the BK’s at the union square virgin megastore in New York at their CD release show.
This band is deserving of world wide fame.
New york is crazy about them.
Reg,Ali,Dawn,Owen and Kevin are the same wonderful people they were before becoming one of the most talked about bands in the world.
It is a shame that some people in Jacksonduh are haters.
It must suck to be duh.
You should all be proud.
If someone doesn’t like a band’s sound and explains why but leaves it open that they might be wrong and are willing to investigate it further does that make them a hater?
Besides, I’d rather be called a hater than just sit lurking in the blogosphere waiting for the chance to call someone a hater.
good fortune money greed sex power
the black kids get their chance
music in any form of art takes shape when an audience feels something they can identify good luck to them and lee harvey there is no hating against these kids who cares if they made it good for them they are talented
bubblegum needs to be purchased to keep the kids chewing
Byron,
You have your head so far up your own ass that you can’t see that
this so called “blog” is just a circle jerk of one.
Keep up the good work!
P.S You better take this comment off fast, you would’nt want
someone to see know your secret.
Negative as usual.
Thanks Lee.
Appreciate it.
Right on Byron, As I sit in the East village laughing with my
girlfriend that you commented back so fast.
I realized that you may want to read the most recent story
about Robert Novack.
It seems that after he ran over a homeless person and then drove off.
When caught by the police, then said, “I never saw anyone”.
Even though the homeless person was laying on his windshield.
Days later, a DC hospital found that Mr. Novack had a brain tumor.
Robert Novalk is one of the most hated political pundits in America.
You should go back and read your posts, there maybe a lot of bodies
laying around.
What I find interesting Lee is even though your in coolsville East Village right now you are sitting around checking JaxCAL to see if I comment back to you.
If I were you I’d be in Chelsea or Williamsburg checking out a show or making art. Catch the train and go check out the PS1 exhibit. I hear it’s rad.
That to me seems more fun than waiting around for me to comment back to your negative comments about JaxCAL. I’m honored though and really appreciate your interest in the site.
And if being open and honest is comparable to driving over a homeless person and driving off then I really have entered the twilight zone.
Take some photos for JaxCAL if you would. That would be swell. Maybe write a post about a show. I’d be totally open to that.
Enjoy the village.
aw come on muskrats, kiss and make up! And i am wholeheartedly for Mr. Harvey’s participation on this here contrapchun’. there are many voices here and Lee’s needs to be one of them! at least i would like it to be!
I’m all for it. Get some art coverage while you’re up there if you are into it. Interviews, photos, anything. That would be great.
I believe Akbar Lightning will be covering New York soon for JaxcAL as soon as his summer is over.
Dylan Klempner up in Boston might be doing some Boston coverage soon too which would be great.
Byron,
I love how you tried to block me from this site,
Your stupid little virus didn’t work..
What you would do in nyc sounds like the wannabe artist that you
are.
Btw you are not here, you are there, “if” don’t mean shit.
I’ll be back in jax for one month and I hope I run into you!
As far as me not liking “your” site, thats just your Republican spin.
I don’t like you!
You are ruining what would have been a great thing for jax.
This site is a joke because you are a control freak.
And as far as me helping you, I wouldn’t piss on you if you were
on fire.
And Mark I’m losing respect for you everytime you take up for this
two bit baby Hitler.
aw man, that hurts- and on my birfday too yo. im everybody’s friend, you know that, unless someone hurts my moms!
Lee, you never cease to amaze me. I have no idea what you mean by block you from this site although I should as you never post anything but negative rants. And actually you’ve given me an idea as you will be moderated if you continue to post the type of hurtful comments you have recently.
What happened to the Mr. positive Lee I knew the last time we spoke in person? I wish he’d come back. I enjoyed talking to him.
I’m not sure why you’d like to be enemies with me. I’m a father of two and a web designer? I don’t think I’m a likely target for your hate. I’d appreciate it if I wasn’t.
When you run into me I’m hoping you’re the same chap I’ve had several productive conversations with and not the one who’s been posting such negativity lately.
Happy Birthday Mark. Congrats man.
Byron, I just read this posting and I have to say that I am terribly disappointed in the original article.
“Derivative”?
um. HELLO….!
They are brilliant in their use of antecedents, and very sweet kids.
Not to mention that Owen Holmes was probably the most progressive voice in local media the entire time that Folio was lucky enough to have him.
Kevin and Reggie helped create much of the better fresher scene from TSI and success couldnt happen to nicer or more talented fun intelligent people.
Did you bother emailing them or asking what their music was about?
I think you might be surprised.
I know that reading your criticisms without the benefit of letting them speak for themselves was not only a surprise for me, but also a little bit of a downer.
Anyways, hope that the site gets a little more positive.
Stephen Dare.
sorry to be so redundant by posting twice in a row… but I thought I would share a couple of interesting tidbits about The Cure.
Most people do not now remember that the first real release by The Cure was titled “Killing an Arab”. They got called terribly racists for the title of this song, and a whole bunch of people declared that they couldnt support such an offensively titled release.
Second, here is what Spin Magazine had to say about them at the height of their career.
“While typically viewed as producers of dark and gloomy music, The Cure have also yielded a number of upbeat songs. Spin has said “The Cure have always been an either/or sort of band: either [. . .] Robert Smith is wallowing in gothic sadness or he’s licking sticky-sweet cotton-candy pop off his lipstick-stained fingers.”
So the opinions about the Cure ranged from accusations of racism to calling them producers of bubblegum pop..
I don’t know why it’s not alright to have a differing opinion from the rest of Jax on The Black Kids. It should be accepted to voice one’s opinion here in town but it’s not.
It’s quite disturbing actually how easily someone is put on a cross for having an opinion.
I find their work derivative. I’m not the only one to say so as the LA Times article suggested.
http://theguide.latimes.com/blogs/soundboard/2008/07/22/pitchforks-epic-fail-of-a-black-kids-review/
I like Owen and think he’s done a lot of good for Jacksonville and he actually had a role in starting JaxCAL. But liking someone as a person doesn’t mean you have to love their music or artwork.
And your opinions you referenced above of the Cure were just that opinions, very similar to my opinion of The Black Kids. Opinions, everyone has them. Am I right? By no means. There is no right or wrong. I’m willing to give them another listen as I suggested above in replying to my brother. But I can’t see myself being impressed with them unless they changed completely which if they stay together long enough they might do.
They’re all great kids. I’m proud of em. I’ve only met Owen and I thought he was really smart. I can see why anyone could be jealous of someone who becomes famous or popular overnight. Shit, I’m jealous of them and I don’t even know them. But some folks frustrate you and have you wondering- God, is it really that easy? Ashton Kutcher comes instantly to mind for me. I’m sure that he, like the Black Kids, works hard. But when the product is underwhelming (The Guardian? Cheaper by the Dozen? c’mon!), well, one doesn’t HAVE to shower them with accolades just because they’re hometown heroes. I think that was what the original post was about? I might be wrong.
And as for being derivative, no one seems to have mentioned it yet, but isn’t ANYTHING labeled Pop (music, art, literature or the like?) derivative of something else? Even Cormac McCarthy, arguably the best living American author of literature, is indeed derivative of Faulkner and Melville. Bob Dylan is derivative of his hero Woody Guthrie. But you gotta admit, those are some pretty good cats to be considered derivative of. The critics who point that out are doing their job of being critical, and they are by no means wrong. They’re not saying they could take Cormac McCarthy or Bob Dylan in a steel cage match. They’re not saying they’re better than them or being critical out of some deep hate of people with talent. They’re pointing out what is true to the best of their knowledge, agree with them or not.
There is nothing new under the sun. If you’re being compared to The Cure, well that’s not too shabby.
I agree the site needs to get more positive, and it can start with commenters. Why are we always taking criticism to mean a personal attack? Why does everybody have this “Think you’re better than me?” chip on their shoulder? Jacksonville’s biggest problem. Everyone wants to jump in the steel cage. Hey that’s not a bad idea for a public performance. Anybody have a steel grudematch cage? Ah forget it, no one would show up.
I’m sure if the Black Kids read this, they would laugh.
James:
But when the product is underwhelming (The Guardian? Cheaper by the Dozen? c’mon!), well, one doesn’t HAVE to shower them with accolades just because they’re hometown heroes.
……..
Yeah, that’s exactly what I was saying. I mean I’m proud of them but that doesn’t mean I have to dig their music. They should be open for critique just like anyone else. When someone becomes famous does that make them untouchable?
And I definitely don’t want to get in a death match with anyone over a silly opinion. For example in this post someone threatened me as always. And you all wonder why Globatron wheres a mask.
Hello again,
I just wanted to make a couple of points.
1. Criticism is a two way street in the blogosphere. If your art is criticism then its fair game that your criticisms in return will be criticised.
I think the problem in this is always whether or not there is basic fairness underlying the criticisms. Which is where the distinctions are drawn.
As you know, I have (and always will) support jaxcal and byron in the mission to create a conversation about art. But Its not fair to throw a rock and run is it? It seems like half of these comments are objections to an alternative point of view by claiming that disagreeing with the original article is an ‘attack’.
Conversations about art are by their definition two way streets….we all agree on this right?
2. Calling the Black Kids ‘derivative’ in a dismissive way is like pointing out that Ru Paul is a pretty good musician, but he looks exactly like a fucking woman…..lol. Its kind of the point isnt it?
The music is clever and kitschy and is so elegant in its basic humor and danceability that its a hundred cleverness years above what is normally produced in this town.
Even better, they are bringing attention to the city in a way that in no way resembles a redneck barbeque.
I hope that you got the point that one could regard your criticism of the Black Kids as ‘derivative’ of the criticisms of The Cure.
3. The post implied that these five kids are potential ‘racists’ because of their name. That they somehow impinged on your french memories of 1989, and that its unfair that they are famous while you arent.
I don’t think these are ‘fair’ criticisms, and I know that you probably didnt mean to be unfair to them, just a little provocative.
And just as you don’t have to praise anything local to be ‘right’, you also don’t have to be unimpressed with anyone else’s success in order to be cool.
Certainly when Jaxcal is being quoted in art papers across the globe, you will want the same fairness applied to you.
Anyways, in love.
Stephen Dare.
That’s the problem. Death match would definately sell out.I could add at plush but it would sell out anywhere. I think it boils down with what we have time to write and what effect it has. I don’t have time to” read ” personal opinions that aren’t taking me anywhere new. The negative ones are the worse. Like the horseshit article in folio ny the 18 year old who’s been here for 6 months. . Everyone is entitled to their own opinion as long as it is similar to mine. I know I am right. But I don’t say that others are wrong. Who has that kind of time? I just say its not my cup of tea. Biggie tea. Plus comments are stupid! That’s derivitive!
I don’t think I implied that they were racist at all. I think if they were called the Pink Kids they wouldn’t be nearly as successful however. Just my opinion. It’s a really smart name that makes people think.
I think it’s great what that they are doing well as I stated in the post. I’m proud of them. And jealous. Who isn’t, really?
The deal is in this town that no one can disagree or they are thrown on the barbie.
I’m not sure why you think I’m unimpressed with their success Stephen. How could I not be? They’re an overnight sensation. And I truly doubt that JaxCAL will ever be quoted in art papers all over the nation but I appreciate it.
What get’s my goat here is that if you disagree or question someone’s work you’re called a baby hitler and that’s acceptable at all in this town, and by your dear friend Stephen.
In summary:
Derivative. Smart name. Not my cup of tea. And that’s provocative? I wonder how this could be at all a provocative post? And if it is, we need to step it up a notch because Jacksonville has a lot of growing to do.
I appreciate you explaining how you think my criticism is unfair and I definitely see your point of view.
lol.
Byron your so cute when your defensive.
I dont think I called you a baby Hitler, or recommend you be thrown on the Barbie.
After all, I tired of the Most Dangerous Game as a dinner repast years ago. When cannibalism was still cool.
But I disagree with you, in love, and Im glad that we are adult enough to discuss the subject.
Trust me I have some little experience in unreasonable haters.
Anyways.
Final suggestion is that you call them or facebook them to get some input. Even if their music isnt your cup of tea, you might find that their experience, ideas and insight are.
They are the Local Kids after all.
It wasn’t you Stephen it was your BFF Lee Harvey in this thread, example below.
“And Mark I’m losing respect for you everytime you take up for this
two bit baby Hitler.”
And I’m totally open to criticism of my criticism. I’m just not into being flamed or threatened which is what has happened in this thread if you read above.
I appreciate your input Stephen. That’s a great idea to try and get an interview with them or a Q&A at least via email. I’d be really into that.
Two Bit Baby Hitler?
lol. Sounds like a great band name, possibly even better than “Black Kids”.
Id steal it if I were you.
Hope to see you soon. Perhaps at Marking Marks.
stephen.
Send me your questions.
Awesome. Will do. Thanks biggie tea.
Yeah Stephen, see you around man. The Making Marks show is going to be rad and a great opportunity for local art. I’m excited to see how that develops. I have heard it will possibly be a regular show maybe bi-annual.
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Globatron.org
The alter ego of contemporary art.Chief Contributors Include:
Mark Creegan / Morrison Pierce / James Greene / Akbar Lightning / MonKevtheModern / Byron King (Founder)
A sounding board for developing contemporary art and culture founded in Jacksonville, Florida.